Initiations and Shifting Paradigms with Makhosi, the Royal Shaman

Logan (00:20):
Into the show. We've got an exciting one for you. Well, I think they're all exciting, but I'm especially excited about this one because it got the first shaman joining the health sovereign podcast, and we'll be exploring exactly what that means, but showman in this show. So joining me today, [inaudible] the Royal Sharman is an extreme pioneer in the domain of personal development and energetic alignment through her groundbreaking modality. The energetics of euphoria Makhosi teachers are clients and guides to ground themselves in the feeling of bliss calling in the state of euphoria on a whim, regardless of external circumstances. So I recently had a chance to meet my cozy in person and event in Utah. We talked a little bit about that. Really found her quite an amazing individual. So invited her on the show. And we're talking about shifting and changing paradigms, which is a very important topic to health because well, the health we have is a direct result of the paradigm we're living in.

Logan (01:20):
I'll be covering more in this show in 2021 as well as other places on really trying to get a better grasp on what this new health paradigm, a humankind, what is possible for us, and really getting that down to the specifics. We've been exploring the current paradigm or the corruption and systematic problems within that, but can we step outside of it? And I think this shamanic perspective is something helpful and important piece of moving forward. We're not moving backwards, we're moving forwards. So let's dive into the interview with Makhosi. Welcome Makhosi to the health sovereign podcast. It's so great to be speaking to you today.

Makhosi (02:08):
Thank you for having me. I'm ready to dive right in.

Logan (02:12):
All right. How does someone become a showman in today's day and age? So how did you arrive here? And I know, I think it's shamanism being something that is not part of our dominant worldview and that worldview is a big thing. I want to talk about spending more time on your story than I normally have. Other people spend time on their story, I think is instructive and helpful to really understand like how do you get yeah,

Makhosi (02:38):
Yeah, yeah. It's interesting because shamanism is such a, such a literal world view spanning the globe, but yet we tend to be so disconnected from it and what that actually means. So when people ask me like what shamanism in general, most of the time they are associating shamanism with the shaman, right? And shamanism is not necessarily dependent on the shaman, the person who is the gentleman, it's not the sharpening shamanism is really just a paradigm in which a paradigm of perceiving the world in which one is concerned with the relationship to all things, the spirit of all things, including yourself or friends and family, but also nature and the universe at large. So the shaman then in a shamanic culture the Shamana, the shaman would be the bridge between those two, those two realms. So even us using the term shaman and shamanism isn't totally accurate because it's really us just perceiving. We, you know, we had anthropologists who saw shamans in Siberia and that is just the title of their medicine people. Right. And across the world, there's different titles for it. There's different names, but really what we're talking about is animistic culture, animistic animism in general, across the world. So all of that kind of preface

Logan (04:49):
For people that may not be familiar with.

Makhosi (04:52):
Yeah, yeah. Animism is like honoring the, the consciousness that animates an aspect of nature. Right. And animates doesn't mean like moving, breathing, et cetera. But it is the consciousness that is within any expression of the universe that we see with our naked eye that has a non-physical component to it. So then how I became a Shawmut. Well first I have to be very clear. I only call myself the Royal shaman because we're here in the West and people know the term shaman, but in, in the lineage that I was initiated into, we're not called Shellmans, we're called sangomas and technically the way in which I operate would be more in alignment with a [inaudible], which is essentially a, a role that has to do with societal direction, teaching concerning myself with the patterns that have been displayed and then bringing us as a collective back into harmony with nature. So my role, although I can work with people individually, that's not really my calling, my calling really is more about bridging paradigms from the West into, into the shamanic paradigm. So where did I,

Logan (06:36):
You were a little girl and was like, I want to be a showman when I grew up. Right.

Makhosi (06:40):
That never happened. Even when I was on the journey and like being told, this is the process and you're going to go through initiation. That was never like, yeah, I want to do that. It was like, well, you don't really have any other choice. All my other options were kind of stripped away until I really took care of this. I would say that really my entire life, I grew up very

Makhosi (07:16):
Spiritually sensitive, feeling energy, being able to read things about people, know things about the, about people. These are not uncommon things. We call them supernatural. They're really not. They're just natural. But I really kind of put those on the back burner to focus on being a high achiever because I grew up the oldest of a teen single mom, and I felt a lot of responsibility and like, okay, well, somebody has to, has to get us out of this situation. And so I was always like top of my class and Oh, you know, I'm going to go off and get my degree. And my plan originally was med school. But once I had a child that kind of derailed everything for me, because not only was I really struggling health wise, my health had gone completely. It, it had just completely disintegrated over some years.

Makhosi (08:26):
And I also began to shift my purse, my perception of what value was like. It wasn't so much about how much money I was earning or how, whatever status that people might think that I could have it then became. I just surrendered to motherhood really, and allowed myself to take one step at a time rather than planning everything out. And that opened the way for me to enter my first, my first initiation process. So I spent my first three years, my son was still very young. He was a toddler while I was an initiation. And I went through initiation through the Dogon tribe of West Africa really connected with the ancient Egyptian ways of being the, the comedic spiritual system. And that process, of course, during that, where like having divination and all of that and things were coming up about who I was here to be. And then that led into me following really crazy synchronicities, following dreams and visions that were happening. And that ultimately led me to meeting my, my spiritual mother, my spiritual teacher, and going to South Africa to I went through a total of seven initiations in that process. And graduated in, graduated from that in 2018 cliff notes.

Logan (10:12):
Yeah, yeah. So much there, the Dogon tribe I've, I've heard of them, mentioned this to a couple other people. Not a lot of people have heard of them. It very fascinating. I know very briefly one of the very cool things, and now I'll post a video too, that has just some of the basic facts behind them to the show notes for this page helps sovereign. It'll be up there. I'm not sure which number we're on right now. What's very interesting that they have a connection to the Sirius star system and they knew facts about that, which they couldn't possibly know air quoting here that modern, astronomical science has verified. Right. Can, can you give a little more background about the Dogan people? Because I think that's very fascinating to understand this, I guess, a quilted history and stuff that is not recognized in Western civilization. Yeah.

Makhosi (11:05):
So what's interesting about the Dogon is this is why the paradigm shift is so important for people to understand, because even what we talk about when we're talking about the doggone it's, it's coming from anthropologists who had one paradigm or one way of viewing things who then come, you know, try to observe and try to learn, but they're doing it all through a, a lens that isn't in alignment with what they're actually learning. So it's almost like standing outside of a house and like trying to guess what's actually in there. And so maybe you get some hints of like you peek through the window and you like, see the couch. Right. And so you're Oh, okay, well, the living room must be here and you start guessing the arrangement inside the house, but you really don't know because you're not in there.

Makhosi (12:02):
One of the things that really stands out to me about the doggone specifically is that people tend to think that it's a very small tribe located only in Mali and that's not actually accurate. It spans a much larger area. And we have to also consider that the lines that make up the countries are pretty recent inventions coming from the West. Those are not, those are not African delineations of, of where one area begins and where it ends. So the Dogon actually is much larger. I'm also making sure I'm not claiming to be a Dogon, so that is not at all what

Makhosi (12:54):
Happened. So there have been a few spiritual teachers that have come out of there only a few and have come here and taught. So that was how I ended up having that opportunity was interacting with, with organizations who were connected with these few individuals who had come out of, out of these tribes to teach their teach the cultural worldview. The other thing that I think is really important to note is that the doggone are not completely unique in, in that knowledge as well, really this paradigm or worldview, which we have seen in ancient Egypt, but, and we call it comedic, but this was actually existing in various areas all over the world. That's why we see pyramids on every continent and ancestors as the foundation of these systems. And there were these foundational pillars that were common amongst all of them. It's just that different tribes had a focus on certain aspects of nature, maybe more than others. So I feel like the gift that I got through that was being initiated into this paradigm, this way of perceiving things, which was brutal because you have to break down everything that you think you believe about what the world is and rebuild it with something else. But those foundational pillars I've really been able to see in all of our ancient spiritual systems and indigenous spiritual systems, because they're, we call them ancient, but they do still exist.

Logan (15:01):
Right. So let's talk about initiations and breaking down like initiations. Aren't fun things like I know there's a, like the crying, like we don't have initiations and that's part of the problem of Western society for the most part, but it's not like a good thing. And you were saying you don't have a choice. And I think that's, it's interesting, no one chooses to be a showman. It's kind of foisted upon you and there's that whole like, hero's journey, the refusal of the call. Like if you refuse things, get worse until you like, okay, I gotta do it. Right. can you, I guess, maybe explain like one of your initiations and tied into this idea of the breaking down of the paradigm that worldview to shift into this other paradigm or worldview.

Makhosi (15:49):
Yeah. initiation, the word by itself really is just speaking to an education. But in these instances it also is a very, it's a very real, tangible experience. It's not just sitting in a classroom learning some stuff like even in the, you know, I'm, I'm part of so many spiritual communities and we have this idea that, Oh like, yes, we're all in initiations all the time, but when we're talking about initiation, that's a different thing. It's a very different thing. So the, let me, let me be very specific. The first initiation that I went through that was really an UN a re-introduction to this paradigm. That was not, it was very difficult, but not nearly as difficult as really becoming a showman. The first one, it was so difficult just because it conf so much conflict of the mind and having to shatter how you see things.

Makhosi (17:01):
I was the only one left out of my class. There were like nine of us when we started, I was the only one to finish in our group. When I entered into my initiation to become a sangoma or a shaman, I was also the only one. And that's just kind of been my path is that I'm really the only one. And that journey was so hard, especially from a Western paradigm where we've, we have this belief that's kind of ingrained in us of superiority. And I know nobody wants to honestly say, Oh, I have this perception of being superior, but we do, we that hopefully somebody is getting triggered and that's okay. But the process, there's so many, just like little aspects that are built into it to break down any illusion that you have, that you're in control, that you are the superior that, you know, what the heck you're doing. And then your own spirit will put you into situations where it's just becoming glaringly obvious. And so what I mean by that, one of the very simple, most basic rules is like, we have to sleep on the floor in initiation. I slept on the floor for four years during that, during that process. And what it does psychologically is keep you close to the ground, very grounded, right. But there's also some like mental stuff happening there as well, where I'm sleeping on the floor. Other people are sleeping on beds.

Makhosi (19:02):
Having to walk on my knees, you know, that part very, very challenging. Those are like the, those are just like simple things, certain taboos things we can't eat, which are really meant to empower us to know, like we have mastery over what we're putting in our body, but also these things aren't conducive in that process to help your spiritual abilities to develop. So you're right in that we kind of are missing some of those aspects here. Like we don't have rites of passage at all. And I think what we're really missing is some of those lessons that come through a very tangible experience, not just a mental education.

Logan (20:04):
Yeah. The Western classroom is very different than any sort of initiation by which we're, we're talking about here and the education, the Latin root of that means that to draw out which is very different than like memorization by wrote the whole system that we have going there.

Makhosi (20:25):
So very interesting too, like where we're really taught to just ask a bunch of a bunch of questions. And we were just constantly asking questions, right? Where the initiation process yeah, you're not really asking questions. You actually are completely in surrender to the, to the cultural norms that you're being trained in and nature itself to unveil or reveal knowledge to you when the timing is right. When you are ready for it, when, when it will make the most sense to you, et cetera, et cetera, and getting comfortable and feeling safe and secure in that I have no control over anything that's happening right now, except for how, how I'm showing up. Right. And who, who I'm being despite, you know, having to wake up at three o'clock in the morning every day and, you know, having debate in cold water outside and, and not sleeping and still somehow showing up and like not ripping everyone's head off because we use some of that.

Logan (21:53):
Yeah. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like me personally, being like, I am a Western person, as you know, probably most of the listeners are, and they're just kind of like default ideas. We don't really, unless we go through things or try to, we often are never challenging our worldview, challenging our paradigm, just so many beliefs come in just because they're there without any possible, other perspective. And I know for me, like kind of default position of like a materialist thing, and I feel it's, it's been a long journey in breaking that down and certainly more so than that, the past couple of years, even before it was interesting, but right before the Corona virus pandemic hit I was, I wrote this article about like reality fluidity, just like practicing, stretching your paradigms, specifically looking at other ways and trying to do that.

Logan (22:50):
But I guess, and I, I feel so many people get stuck because they're, they're like so stuck in their paradigm because it's, it's, it can be like earth shattering stepping out of it. Right. It's, it's literally worldview shattering to get like, initiated, to get broke down to that. So I know that's why people, you know, don't move outside of it, but can you speak to like, I guess kind of two ways to go, is there a specific instance where your paradigm shifted that you could speak to in some part of your initiation? We'll start there, like, where do you is like a breakdown moment or whatnot, but really you went from one paradigm shifted to another one.

Makhosi (23:29):
Oh my which ones start with it was just like, every time I thought I had got, gotten comfortable in a new paradigm, it was like, everything was just, was just shattered. I would say the that's like really leaping out to me and I know that this is going to get it just really jars people, especially because of course the listeners can't see, but I am a woman of color. I am mixed, I'm both black and white. And really having this idea because in the us, there's been such a fight for equality, right? And so from the view of race, but also from the view of gender, I really was coming from this world view, that equality was the goal. And I had a moment where all of that shifted. I was experiencing things and seeing things. And I came to realize that equality really does not exist and actually is not desirable by nature, but it is equity that, that everything is valued for what it is innately.

Makhosi (24:51):
So equality AKA to be equal, right. To be the same right. One equals one. Right. So if I'm a woman and I'm trying to be equal to a man, then I am now trying to fit myself into a man box. I'm trying to fit into this box that says that actually the Manliness or what the Western view of masculinity is. Cause that's really what we're talking about. That that is what we should aspire to. Right. And when I came to this shift of like, wait, no Manliness is valuable. Yes. And it's valuable in relation to the complimenter the complimentary, right? Like I came to be the compliment to that, which means the opposite of equal opposite of equal, still valuable, still valuable everything, having its value, mosquito, having its value, Brown grass, having its value. But that the idea that, Oh, we all should be aspiring to equality our ancient systems.

Makhosi (26:24):
Weren't set up that way. So when I actually learned about the ancient hierarchy or really the hierarchy that still does exist in in these systems that have been going back tens of thousands of years, the hierarchy is there really as a responsibility, not so much as power, but the power is really about responsibility. And so the person that's at the top is in the greatest service to everyone at the bottom, but everyone that's in, in the hierarchy has access to what is the goal. And the goal is mastery of the self. The goal is to become like the divine to elevate ourselves, whether you are a street sweeper, whether you are a honey bee or a, or a King, right. And so it's not fighting and like being envious of one another and, and all of that to try and be equal. But it's really about honoring the value of each individual expression of the universe as is because the universe, the nature shows us it prioritizes diversity difference, innate connection, right. We all are connected, but difference. And that's, what's valuable

Logan (28:00):
Have, remember, as we met was that back in October, a couple months ago now at an event that was amazing. So many things that could share from that, but I remember you talking about, as part of your training, you'd have to like go into a home and be psychic. Like you had to be able to bring up your skills, use them and actually like read the room, read people. Could you tell a little bit about that and what that's like it, I don't know the coming from like a materialist paradigm, it's like, Oh, I'm just imagining things. It's kind of the default position. Or, you know, what, if I get it right, you can have so many emotions get stirred up in that, but to really develop your skills to that point, it takes a lot of training. It takes many initiations. But could you speak a little bit to that?

Makhosi (28:45):
Yeah. I mean, one of the aspects of our training process is there's tests. So this is not like, Oh, I'm going to go into college for four years and then I'm going to come out. I'm going to graduate and I just need to

Logan (28:58):
Rote memorize these answers. Right?

Makhosi (29:01):
No, none of that being in the, in this initiation process is like really surrendering to being tested at any moment and having to be ready because that's how spirit works. It, there's not a time you can't really plan spirit doesn't work that way. So I would always have to be like on call for spirit. So my spiritual mother would take me to places and, and interacting with people. And then we have a very specific way of doing divination. And I didn't have all I had was my own site. And so she would be testing my, my site. And by the way, I was wrong a lot a lot, it was like surrendering to being wrong and being, having the pressure and all of that. So I would, she would take me into a house and we would cleanse the whole house.

Makhosi (30:05):
There'd be a bunch of people there. And then she would be like, all right read, read these people, tell me, you know, I don't even speak the language mind you, I've only picked up some Zulu words in the process. And so I'd go in there and I would have to read what it was that I saw, which also showed me as well, that the influence of our, of our cultural paradigm, because I would be reading something, but I would be filtering it through this lens of how we see things in the West. And it would also grant an opportunity for like some re re-education, but we would have like, it's like a pillar of our initiation process that your spiritual mother, or really any anyone that's assisting in that. Cause it's not just one person. Like my spiritual grandmother was there. Her partner was there, my spiritual mom's brother was there. There were, there were people that were involved. This is like a community situation. This is not like just a one-on-one thing. And they can, at any time I could be outside washing clothes and then they would yell for me. And they would say essentially in Zulu, like I've hidden something.

Makhosi (31:26):
And so now once they say I've hidden something, that means you go down right then into divining and using your site to see, okay, what is it? What is it that that they've hidden, you have to tell them where, where it is specifically without getting up from your spot. You have to tell them what you, what you see where it's hidden. And then once you've gotten it, it's like a big celebration and you get, you get to go grab it and then you get to dance with it. And yeah, it's it, it's a lot of fun looking back on it. It was a lot of pressure.

Logan (32:11):
Looks good in hindsight, for sure. I can understand that guess as I say, I'm still shifting and it's a constantly shifting paradigm and worldview, as I'm moving more into the understanding, working with speaking about spirit one of the things that has held me up, like, yeah, I'm definitely, you know, high achiever when I control things as an entrepreneur business owner, that sort of thing, everything like plan all that. And I've, I've had great success in doing that, which means I've just built that paradigm stronger and stronger. So as I move into this, it's, it's such a traumatic shift. It's like spirit a interview. I had recently with a man Thomas insert. He kind of was talking about that. That's above my pay grade and I kind of like that praise, but I am trying to kind of understand and be able to interact one of the things that was like a stop for me. He's like, okay, you know, I'm hearing this physical or how do I tell the difference between quote unquote, good spirits, bad spirits. And I know like there's a whole trickster type of entity in there. Like how do you possibly navigate this thing? Which I like have no tools with which to navigate should I even be stepping into this? And of course I'm like initiated into this. So it's like, okay, I have to now. So where, yeah. How do you learn to navigate these realms?

Makhosi (33:30):
I would say going back to really like hum humbling yourself. So the initiation process is so humbling just in itself. It is humbling. You can't and really being open to I'm going to make mistakes. I'm going to fail at this quite a bit. Oftentimes, and that's, that's really the way that it's even set up is like, I'm not going to tell you anything, you're going to do it. And then I'm going to tell you, right? So you have to mess up first before you get any help here. But interacting with the non-physical realm, this is a question that I get a lot. And what people don't realize is that everything is non-physical before it's physical, right? Like we're entrepreneurs, right? So we create a business in our head. We create a product in our head. We create a service in our head before it ever manifests in the physical. So people are often like, Oh, I'm afraid. Like what if I interact with dark entities, you've already been interacting with dogs,

Logan (34:51):
Right.

Makhosi (34:52):
That you've been doing that. Right. Like when you're watching horror films back to back to back, right. You're interacting with darkness. So it's not to say don't worry about it, cause you should definitely worry about it. But also letting go of expectations. So we think that darkness means we're powerless in the situation. Like if a dark entity comes to me, then I am at the mercy of the dark entity, right. When really that dark entity is coming because you have the power to assist in this. Right. And you have the power to transform energy from one form into another because it's just energy. Right. Can it influence sure. It sure can. It can manifest very tangibly, but at its core, it is also energy. So first looking in your life at where you can become a master in just energy in your life. Right. So how can you master feeling your emotions, right? How can you master your interactions with your family that you don't like and so on and so forth. And what's beautiful is that mastery in those areas then grants you this capacity to be able to read and know and, and Intuit energy in a much more powerful way when you're dealing with, you know, dark or light entities.

Logan (36:51):
Yeah. You mentioned the emotions there and those, one of the things you were teaching us at that event back there, just the, being able to fully feel, being able to expand your range of emotions. That is, I think you said something along the lines of intuition is developed through capacity and range of emotions. A lot of people want to be more intuitive, but not if it means like I have to be able to deal with sadness or anything. So I found that very interesting. Could you speak to, I guess a little bit more why that's important then how people can work with that?

Makhosi (37:25):
Yeah. Spirit really is connecting through emotion. So spirit can, can communicate with us through, through that medium. Right. And so it is this non-physical aspect. That's bringing us information about how we're perceiving the world what's happening in the world. How do we feel about it? What are we making it mean and so on and so forth. So what I was really speaking to in that, in that training is that we have such a resistance to feeling anything other than happy or, or like good, right. We get very addicted to that. But our ability to experience the non-physical is really in our willingness to surrender, to experiencing the full capacity, which means if, if I'm, if, if we can view it like on a scale, right? The more that someone has been able to go through the entire range of emotions and still be solid and, and still be light despite having experienced trauma and you know, really awful experiences or really been in the depths, they can then tap into that because it's just it's energy.

Makhosi (39:03):
So in that exercise, I was taking you all through generating emotions within yourself because it's just energy. And what I find is that when you become aware of how much energy you have access to, that's in what we don't want to experience, right? The, the sadness, the grief, the despair, the anger, et cetera. But you can transmute that and use that as fuel. So even me sitting here with you today, right now, what I am tapping into is something that was so dark. I nearly died. That was what provided the fuel because I was like F this I'm not, I'm not giving up. You're not, I'm not, I'm not going to just give up or, or be the victim of this. And so I tapped into that experience and that provided me with the fuel to continue on with my training and in my initiation when I wanted to quit, I wanted to quit almost every day because it sucks.

Makhosi (40:31):
Like I'm by myself, I'm in South Africa, I'm going through this, these challenges, my husband and my kid are in the U S like, it was hard. I wanted to quit every day, but I kept tapping into the energy of that experience that I had and used it as fuel. So when you allow yourself to experience that wide range, you have a whole lot of fuel, a whole lot of power that you can put behind whatever it is that you are creating in the world or where you're going, or, or what you want to influence and impact.

Logan (41:07):
Right? Yeah. I think the, although we label them the bad emotions, they tend to be stronger motivating forces than the good ones. The trick is to not get like stuck there. That's where we see the negative health effects and whatnot. And to bring this back to like the being psychic, the using your intuition, if you always suppress your sadness, for instance, right. That's like shutting off that perspective, that lens to able to read that in another person. Right? So that's, that's this idea of being able to expand the scope and the range of emotions to fully feel things. Right.

Makhosi (41:41):
Absolutely. And really when we're talking about connecting with other humans, right. Whether it's just reading their energy or being able to be empathetic or hold space for them, et cetera, the capacity that we can do that too. Like if you've never experienced anything close to what this person has experienced, it can be difficult to hold the space for them without getting sucked into their emotion. Right. It's so much easier for that to weigh on you and for it, for it to become you. Right. You, you end up taking it on, but if you've also experienced, maybe not the exact same thing, but similar frequency right. Of an experience, then you can sit there with someone as their witness, allow them the space to feel all of that without taking it on. Right. And so then it becomes almost like a super power because holding spaces not about, Oh, you can cry on my shoulder. Like just make you feel good. Right. It's sitting in a place where this person is allowed to fully experience what they are experiencing without somebody trying to fix it without somebody judging them for it without somebody now getting sucked into their, their stuff, it's being a rock and holding the space so that they can experience all of that and then have something to grab onto, to come out of it.

Logan (43:20):
Yeah. That's resonating deeply with me right now for an experience that I'm sure I'll, I'll share on this podcast. Another, yeah. So back at this event in Utah, amazing experience, like through and through, and for me, it was the first time I felt my ancestors. That's how I've described it to other people in that. And this is like babbling, you know, working with other shamans and whatnot. And that's always, you know, through all the cultures around the world, as you were saying, the ancestors are such a huge part. And I like, it was one of those things. Like I cognitively knew it should be good, but this was the first time I felt it. And that feels embodied. And I can like tap into that connection at any time. Could you speak to the importance of the ancestors and how this fits into some of the different ideas we've been exploring so far?

Makhosi (44:15):
Oh my gosh. And hers is like the, I almost look at it as like for the West. It's like the missing link that then, or the, or the missing key that unlocks the paradigm to everything else. So the ancestors are such a pivotal piece and an ancestor reverence because we see them as the bridge between the physical and the non-physical for each of us. Right. Like we're born through the portal. That is our, our mother. Right. And she was born through the portal that was her mother and so on and so on and so on. So our ancestors knew and had systems built around this because they knew that there was no part of them. No one can see I'm rubbing my arms right now. But they could see that there was, there was no aspect of them that they could point their finger on. That was not an ancestor that was not coming from ancestors. Right. They are in our DNA, we are them and they are us. So even when we're talking about ancestor reverence and the spirit, that is the ancestors, we're talking about ourselves, an aspect of ourselves that was in the past, and now we are them in the present. Right. And so the ancestor for each human being is first and foremost, the guide or the guides I call them spirit squad,

Makhosi (46:15):
Your spirit squad. And they are literally in the bones, in, in, in Zulu, they would say, it's like, they're in your bones. Which we know like this is where blood's created. Like

Logan (46:30):
Science is catching up to this. How often does

Makhosi (46:36):
Hello? Our ancestors have been known this for a long time. Now science is finally catching up. And from them, what, when you are in connection with, and communion with your ancestors, this is also an aspect of being able to tap into your intuition, develop your intuitive capabilities. It's also really pivotal to your health, right? So spiritual issues that have not been resolved can manifest as very physical, real health issues, some mental, but also some in the physical body. During that event, I had an experience of resolving the pain in my shoulder that was directly connected to my father's line that I had been experiencing for a couple years. And it still hasn't come back, which is absolutely amazing. I don't even know where to, I could do like so much on just ancestors because it's that important. And I think that's why so many people are feeling this call right now to dig, dig into ancestry.com and DNA tests and all of that, because there's this soul yearning for that connection right now.

Logan (48:04):
I also feel like if we had that ancestor reverence, you know, looking back to the past, but recognizing you'll be an ancestor at some point. So it would dramatically cut down the very short term thinking the Western society tends to have as well.

Makhosi (48:19):
Yeah. I mean, there's so many, so many things that just that little piece results for us. Like if you understand that you are an ancestor like to yourself also to our children, right. And then that, and then actually you're going to come back through them and experience what you left. It resolves so much also the way that we see our children and that we see our elders is influenced in that way. Right now we kind of throw elders away because they're no longer productive air quotes. It's the Western way. It's the way, you know, like we just going to use you up until you're 65 and then throw you into a nursing home and never see you again. Where indigenous systems, anxious systems, that's not a thing like the elders, their value is just different. They're not supposed to be equal. They're not supposed to be equal to the 30 year old man. They've now transformed into some, someone with a different kind of value to bring. And so it was beautiful, just a sidebar to see firsthand cultures where the elders are, the ones that raised the Little's babies. Right. And they're still very active and granting their wisdom to everyone in the community, still participating. They're not just like shoved off in a room somewhere. And I just imagine, like, what if we didn't think that we were smarter than our parents all the time, right.

Logan (50:13):
That go through and teenager, but maybe after that, like I said,

Makhosi (50:16):
Yeah, I mean, as a whole, we are right. We are like the rebel

Logan (50:23):
That's other people me personally,

Logan (50:27):
Can I ask Just to give people listening, something, take it home. What would be like a simple thing they can do to establish or cultivate that connection to the ancestors if they've never had it, or if they've done some things, what would be like one fairly simple thing you'd recommend

Makhosi (50:43):

Simplest thing. Cause I'm all about simple and practical. When you drink water, when you drink water, allow yourself to just get present to the journey and the life. And how many of your ancestors have had this water, allow yourself to sit in that for a second, right. And then speak over the water. So literally science is finally figuring this out. You can program water with your vibration, with your words. So getting into that vibration and that reverence first, and then allowing yourself to speak into the water, what it is that you are grateful for, what is abundant in your life, what you want to see in your life. You know, good health stability, lots of love, clarity, all of those things, and then drink the water simple 30 seconds.

Logan (51:52):
So one of the things I'm exploring kind of a, a mission Nicole in that has been thrust upon me is like shifting us towards a new health paradigm. I liked that you said that the ancestors was the missing key that unlocks so many things. And I see it playing a role in there. And we've been talking about paradigm and worldview. Is there any other missing keys, like big major points that would be, I guess, easy enough for someone to start thinking in those terms?

Makhosi (52:28):
The other one that I'm going to say is that often time it's hard for us to see another paradigm because we are just so, so in ours. And so if you don't have someone who just has another paradigm, it can be difficult to access that, but getting into the practice because we are so indoctrinated in a very dualistic way where everything is this or that for, or against light or dark black, white, right. Allowing yourself to explore, well, what would be outside of these constraints?

Makhosi (53:14):
Just entertaining that question of what would be outside of these constraints rather than putting your energy so focused on one or the other, looking at what is completely out of this dual system. What is a way that I can go about that, about this that's indirect. I, this is really like the more in the more feminine aspect, but it is where I teach from is this very indirect way of going about things rather than fighting against fighting and having to put so much energy towards something, looking at what is completely out of this. And you can do that in your everyday life, in your approach to your spouse, in how you're dealing with your kids, in how you're going about your business, in how you are making choices with how you spend your money and so on and so forth, doesn't have to be just organic or not organic, right? There's options outside of that completely. And a lot of the answers that we seek and really where we're going with this paradigm, I bring up the ancient ways because there's really strong foundations, but it's not for us to return to that. PS. We're not returning to that. That's done. That's not happening, but we can look at okay, what were the foundational pillars that our ancestors held on to? What have we learned that isn't really serving us from the Western paradigm and okay. How, how do we now move forward?

Logan (55:18):
Moving forward? Yep. We need a new normal, just not the one they're pitching us in my I'm going to go see, this has been absolute blast. So much fun to talk to you. Thank you for coming here. Where can people go to follow you find more of your work, contact you if they're interested. Yeah.

Makhosi (55:40):
I'm at the Royal Shaman pretty much everywhere. So TheRoyalShaman.com on YouTube on Instagram and Facebook.

Logan (55:52):
Excellent. And the show notes for this episode, links to all that will be available. Excellent. yeah. Any final words for the people listening

Makhosi (56:03):
Final words

Logan (56:06):
For now

Makhosi (56:10):
Allow yourself to explore the possibility of what your life might look like. If you put just a little focus on healing, your relationships. Hmm.

Logan (56:30):
Excellent advice. And this has been fun. I really enjoy exploring the shamanic realms. The spiritual realms, this this side of life to me is more fun. So come and join us. Thank you.