Soul Centered Healing with Thomas Zinser

Logan (00:00:20):
This is the first time I've reached out to an author out of the blue and asked if they wanted to be on my podcast. Happy to say that the answer was, yes, this is a book I've been recommending to more people than any other book. At least this year, I found it very impactful for me in how it brought together some puzzle pieces and really gave me some puzzle pieces to work with in an area that is a bit more difficult. So let me read the bio of my guest today . Thomas Zinser, is a hypnotherapist and spiritual counselor now retired from private practice in grand Rapids, Michigan in 1987, he was a clinical psychologist specializing in hypnosis and the treatment of dissociative disorders. This included multiple personality disorder now labeled as dissociative identity disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and those clients who were abused as children. And as the lessons in August of that year, he met Katherine, a woman who channeled his spirit entity named Gerod. The information Gerod gave him pointed to a greatly expanded view of the mind and soul and what can go on at inner levels to cause a person pain or distress. Gerod also gave information about specific clients and suggestions for treatment within six months, Gerod and Thomas established a collaboration, which continued for 15 years, soul centered healing is the result of that collaboration.

Logan (00:01:41):
So I've certainly shied away from channeled information for the most part, it's just, it was outside my paradigm to really kind of trust that, go deeply into that. What I liked about Thomas' story here of which he will be sharing. Some of it is the clinical evidence for it, that he got results from this channel identity, Gerod, and did stuff with his clients and had better results with what I'm focused on in health. Always looking at the results, you know, follow the facts, follow the information, and that can lead into some very interesting places. So I hope you enjoy this. If you want more on this kind of topic certainly treading into newer waters for myself very much enjoying doing that. I would love to hear your feedback. Drop me a line [email protected] or head on over to healthsovereign.com. Specifically for this episode, I believe we're number 58 here. You can leave a comment about it. Let me know if you want more along these lines or also the flip side, if you'd like to get to more kind of brass tacks, physical healing type stuff. Although truthfully, you really got to span the gamut. If you want ultimate healing. That's my perspective. And I think it's a more useful without further ado. Let's dive into the interview. Enjoy welcome, Tom. Great to have you here today.

Thomas (00:03:08):
Well, that's good to be with you and hope we can get into some, some nice stuff.

Logan (00:03:13):
Yes. I'm very much looking forward to this ever since I heard you on Alex, our kits skeptical podcasts and your story, what we'll be talking about today really resonated with me in a deep way. So immediately got your books, started reading them and glad I did it. I feel for me it kinda, it gave me a bigger, better kind of frame with which to understand this stuff that is somewhat hard to understand. Right? Yeah. So let's dive a bit into your background. So your clinical psychologist, is that correct?

Thomas (00:03:48):
Yes. I shoot my doctorate in 1977. Yeah. Counseling psychology. I practiced psychology up until really I got into the paranormal so I can imagine.

Logan (00:04:08):
Yeah, I think that's a fascinating way. And I really liked how you talked about it in your book, but what kind of led you in that direction? Was it really just the clientele that you were working with that led you into researching the subject? I know obviously once you got in contact with Gerod, which we'll be talking about, but I suppose a lot of people with more materialist mindset would just kind of stick with that. What kind of led you in that direction of going into the paranormal?

Thomas (00:04:35):
Basically it was beginning to work with clients diagnosed as multiple personality. And so I would be communicating with different personalities with one client that kind of led to a greater understanding that we all have sub-personalities, but not to that extreme. And in working with sub personalities so much one client after the next, there came one client where something came forward didn't that did not feel or seem to be a part of her that took me beyond sub-personalities, which eventually got into the spirit realm. So it was kind of that grit that starting with sub personalities as a phenomenon, and one thing led to another.

Logan (00:05:28):
Yeah. Yeah. I've heard, obviously this is not something I've gone super deep and I do have a friend that someone in her family has did I don't know if she has been diagnosed specifically with that, but that's what I've been told. I've always found it a very fascinating area. For example, I've, I've heard stories like one personality will be diabetic or as another personality will not be, and that's, that can be shown in the physiological test or one personality will need glasses while another has 2020 vision. That to me really speaks to something interesting is going on here that is outside of the materialist viewpoint, right?

Thomas (00:06:07):
Yes. Yes. It just reminds me of a recent Bernard Castro last for studying subpersonalities or at least talking about them, but he talked about an experiment where a person with multiple personalities one was blind the others could see Hmm. And putting them, putting the person through the MRI. And then the sub-personality through the MRI. They actually could show physical kind of shutting down or stopping that visual for that personality. So that's pretty pretty strong stuff. Yeah,

Logan (00:07:00):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Let's go a bit deeper into this idea. So multiple personality is an extreme of this, that some people obviously there's like a clinical diagnosis for this, but you're saying the sub personalities is something that we all have. And I'd say that's one of the things that resonated for me because, you know, I, I guess I've seen it and kind of felt it with myself and other people I've worked with. Can you explain how that works or how you perceive that

Thomas (00:07:28):
In term in terms of trauma? And sub-personalities my understanding is that when a person, and this is normally a child or an early adolescent who has not developed a strong ego defense, an ego identity, yet they're still pretty vulnerable psychologically. When that child, when something is happening, that that child can no longer tolerate consciously, it just cannot. It, that child would dissociate says if the conscious mind steps away the saying is mother nature, abhors a vacuum, a personality is created to take over in that experience, which again is most often traumatic. And that's a personality is created to take over the situation and will do whatever it can to tolerate, manage and survive that trauma when the trauma has passed and that conscious shelf, in a sense, it's safe to come back to everyday awareness. That's a personality that was created. We'll move to the unconscious mind.

Thomas (00:09:02):
Now in this view of soul centered healing that let's say, let's say as a six year old that's six year old child, that is a psychic being at that, in that unconscious realm. It is still living in its reality as a conscious being, but is a very narrow consciousness, usually restricted to the traumatic experience itself. Now there are, there are things that can happen with that, and that gets a little more complex, but it that's the basic so at some point when that person has grown up, let's say now they're 26 years old, if something in the outer world or something in the inner world that reminds them of an early trauma of that six year old, six year old came get triggered, usually in a sense, because the same fear or the same threat now is being triggered in them. And so they will come forward with a multiple personality. They will take over the consciousness at that time. And that, that's the part that's very dramatic for most of us that sub personality will, in a sense, come forward, blend with our conscious mind. And in a sense you might, it might be quite emotional. They might be strong reactions, but you still remain conscious of where you are, what is happening. But that's a sub personality, then it can come forward and it's going to do its defense again.

Logan (00:10:50):
So that would be the, I guess the key distinction between, I guess, kind of an average person, because we all have these right. Pretty much everyone is going to have sub personalities. And I guess this gets into the question, like I've heard it described as like little traumas versus trauma with a capital T like sexual abuse, physical abuse at an age where it may cause these more distinct splits that can lead to most bull personalities versus, you know, it's trauma is kind of a part of life as a human being, right. So is that the big distinction that kind of blending of consciousness versus the full takeover of this other personality?

Thomas (00:11:28):
Well, I don't, I don't know if there's an answer or at least an answer for that in the sense that trauma a person, the person purchase trauma can never be judged from the outside. Right. So it is always subjectively determined and what's, some of us might say, well, don't know why I had a big deal by that, but for that person, for some reason, boy, it left them traumatized. So we can't make those judgments about what's big. And what's little, I think that's in there, the severity of the trauma that has occurred. I think that that is certainly a part of it. Another part may be the development of that person's ego and ego strengths, just kind of the personality sort of strengths at the time, the age may come into it. So, so I think there are several factors we really can't predict, right? Like one person to the next,

Logan (00:12:41):
Right? Yeah. Some person could, you know, have like physical abuse and really not be dealt with it too much. Whereas another kid, you know, their, their ice cream cone falls off and they turned that into a huge emotional thing for them. Right. And so I think that's important and we've talked, or some of my background is in neuro-linguistic programming in a, an element of that is that the parts therapy of thinking along the lines of, you know, we're not just one thing, but we have these different parts of us that may come in conflict. And that really kind of maps to this idea of subpersonalities. But as you said in the book, let me see if I have this quote right here, but when, when you started talking to them as if they were conscious beings, even limited conscious beings, you had better results with that versus just thinking of it as like a part of the consciousness. Is that right?

Thomas (00:13:36):
Yeah, so that was, that was a huge insight for me. And that, that did change the way I communicate to the sub personalities, but it also allowed me in a sense to key into their point of view before, in a sense it was, I'd get a sub personality and it wasn't a trauma like objective, and that I wanted to help find out what went on once I understood that they were conscious beings that sort of certainly allowed a kind of identity between us. So I could kind of see and understand from their point of view, much more clearly, and then help them find their way out of that pain or hurt or fear. So it was a big step, a big insight.

Logan (00:14:30):
Hmm. I imagine that would also allow you to be more like empathetic to them rather than I guess kind of treating them as a thing, but as a real person.

Thomas (00:14:39):
Yes. And I I'd have to say working with the multiple personalities, that kind of empathy had already developed these personalities where people, so when had moved also into the sub-personalities which weren't that severe like, like normal yes. That, that empathy was there to understand that they've got feelings, perceptions, understandings. So it was a big thing.

Logan (00:15:10):
Okay. Now let's bring in Gerod, can you tell the story of how you started working with Gerod?

Thomas (00:15:18):
Well kind of briefly, I was in a practice with other psychologists. I did have gnosis and in the lunch room one day I was speaking to one of my colleagues. We were talking about people who have out of body experience and our part-time accountant was sitting there. She was having her lunch, but she listened to the conversation. She went home that night and she sat down and with her husband attempted to call in a being she knew as Gerod. And she had experienced Gerod when she was like around 18 and it frightened her and she immediately stopped it after hearing our conversation in the lunch room, she went home and she tried to see if this was still upset. Well, Gerod was immediately present with her. And from that point she approached me maybe a couple of weeks later and asked if I would like sit down and have this experience, just see what happened.

Thomas (00:16:36):
And I said yes to that. I've never thought about consulting a psychic, but you know, for me, what what'd, you have to lose sort of thing. So I had a first session with Gerod and he gave me information about a client that was very stuck with couldn't get past blocks. He gave me information about a spirit present with this man and about how to address that spirit. So the next week when I worked with this gentleman using Gerod's perspective and his suggestions, I began to get communication, which up to this point has all been blocked in that communication back and forth made sense. And in the end, this beer did agree to go. The whole thing blew my mind in terms of actual communication back and forth in dialogue. So from that point I asked Catherine, if I could do another session with about a month later, same thing happened more information.

Thomas (00:17:55):
And I asked her again, about a month later, after four months, I talked to Catherine and she and I agreed and Gerod agreed to form a collaboration in which I would meet with Catherine once a week. Bring my questions to Gerod is very important to know or understand that Gerod was able to read my client's soul in present time, which meant I could do a session with the client, talk with Gerod the next day or a couple of days later in present time and ask him to look at what just happened. Why did I get blocked? Or why didn't this happen or what was going on here? And in present time, Gerod has given me information that I could take back to that client the next week. So it was a very, that blew my mind too. So

Logan (00:19:00):
Yeah, I'd say this was one of the things that really resonated with me, why I liked your story, this idea. So I've been doing a deep dive and looking at how much science has falsified and, you know, our whole world is built around science, you know, to the point where it's kind of become a religion of scientism. But part of scientific evidence has always been clinical evidence. Although that's kind of not, you know, if it's not a double blind placebo controlled style, like some, some people don't want to have anything to do with it, but I find that clinical evidence is very important. And even though some people would want to dismiss that channeled spirit. And I I'm sure you had some skepticism yourself, but the fact that you were able to get results with your clients using Gerod's help when you were otherwise stuck and we're not getting any sort of traction that just really spoke to something's going on here and it's having positive, real effects. So I should fold that and keep going with it. And that, that, that then means that, you know, soul centered healing is born out of this. Right. You're, you're having really great success with it.

Thomas (00:20:09):
Yeah, that's exactly it. After, after collaborating and working with Gerod for three, four months, I think I was already quite convinced and confirmed with this information that he was giving, because it was all over the place. I had many different clients and so all kinds of different things are happening and Gerod had information about it. Yeah. So it, wasn't just kind of working with a sub personality. We were dealing with external entities and parts of the self. So yeah, it was quite a trip.

Logan (00:20:49):
Yeah. A term I've been throwing around for myself is that I'm a recovering materialist, you know, just being born in our culture. That was kind of like by default how I thought things work. And it's slowly really, for me, like step-by-step piece by piece, getting into this idea of like, you know, now I'm regularly working with my spirit guides. I'm not channeling or anything like that, but trying to establish this connection. And it's, it's a whole new world to me. It's also very exciting. And that's why one of the reasons, the one that you on this call, I felt like your map of how this world works from your clinical experience and working with Gerod and your clients. As I said, really resonated with me, I liked one of the quotes you had in your book there, the knowledge of spirits was kept underground. That science denied, they exist and that religion thought, or a lot of the religions thought that it was of the devil, right? So kind of both sides as things got polarized that don't deal with this at all. But we see, I guess it's been kind of like a growing field, more acknowledgment and even scientific and clinical evidence that such exists and interacts with our world regularly.

Thomas (00:21:55):
It is it's part of it. I think the, the issue for soul centered healing is that each of us is a soul and each of us possesses a soul consciousness at some level, we do know the light and that has been veiled or us to reincarnate to incarnate that knowledge of our light has been veiled in terms of what Gerod would describe as this earth plane becoming a level playing field between light and dark in order to create the situation for souls to exercise absolute free choice that it is in the choosing that is so in a sense, learns, evolves, and moves to its own awakening. Now that's way above my pay grade, right. That when I'm on the other side with that in terms of human incarnation, there is that, that issue that we are created of light. And we're trying to wake up to that so that, yeah, yeah,

Logan (00:23:20):
Yeah. The way I've been thinking about healing for a while now is these different perspectives or levels like the physical level, energetic level, mental and emotional levels in the spiritual level. And they're not distinct, obviously they affect each other. And then different modalities may help more on one or another of these levels, but really like the spiritual ones, like, okay, that exists. But I didn't really have tools for that. Like what do you do there, like, as you said, above pay grade that phrase still trying to figure that out. But this, the soul centered healing gave me, as I said, a good framework and for really thinking about this and kind of perceiving it, and now, now that I've gone through your books and that we're speaking here, like, I feel I can, I can see how this works with other past experiences, various things that I've gone through and see that it's not like a completely left field thing. There's a lot of similarities and different experiences that I've had. I'd like to ask the difference between possession and inhabiting spirits, or even, I guess sub personalities, spirits dark forces, the different distinctions that you have with these different things. But when we're talking about a spirit being with a person and affecting them, it's not the same as possession, right. So can you talk about those distinctions?

Thomas (00:24:46):
Well, in terms of talking about spirits, most often, what we encounter are, or this term spirit attachment or spirit intrusion entering into the person's energy possession would be a third kind of phenomenon. So the attached spirits, the intruding spirits are not spirits who want to possess. They've got, they've got a few different reasons for what they do. They may want to take human energy, human light energy. Since we are souls. There are spirits who need still light energy, but they do not go to the light to receive it. And there are attached spirits and basically they're kind of lost or confused. They may try to stay attached to a family member when they're, when the body has died. But again, their intent is not to possess. It's, it's either to find a place to be some kind of comfort, but when it comes to possession, these there is the intent to take over a soul's will basically in enslavement. And that is from at least my understanding and talking with Gerod that is a heavy duty kind of move on the part of darkness or soul and darkness is to possess. It takes it, it takes planning. It takes, I think it's done in kind of steps, almost like an infection for, or demonic being to possess another soul, take some work, take some planning, take some time. So that is a, I think a pretty heavy duty kind of thing compared to attach spirits or intruding spirits. Possession is much more serious.

Logan (00:27:20):
And remind me, I don't remember the specific statistics, but hearing like Catholic priests investigating demonic possession, they'd say like, Oh, 90% of these cases weren't that, but, or 95%, but what about the five to 10% that actually were like, what is going on there? I just found that was really interesting. Could you talk a little bit more about, I really liked this idea it's kind of like a bacteria or microbiome of spirits or these different personalities, or even, I guess some would be more like parasites non-beneficial ones that's kind of giving me a visual how to perceive the interactions within the spiritual plane. Could you talk more about that? And one of the parts of your book, I really like is just the map. You have to give like a visual of how this works and really how complicated it can be of how these spirits can group with sub personalities that several of those can come together. And that, that you know, a dark force can be overlooking them. Can you explain a little bit that, how that, how you perceive that map and really, I guess how that kind of unfolded as you continued this work,

Thomas (00:28:29):
You are getting into the complexity, right? And there's a couple of different complexities. One is sub-personalities that are created within a person can group together and they can group together again because of certain conditions, they share certain feelings, a certain reaction, something, some similarity ties in together. So in that sense, you can find so personalities forming a group. And when you talk about spirits and Trudy, they and sub personalities are often the point of intrusion, the vulnerable part of the psyche that these spirits in a sense that they're the door, these spirits come through. And so if you take, for example, a spirit who's approaching a five-year-old little child and offers that child a doll, and that accepts that dog with a smile on her face. That's a door and that's an agreement, and that can allow the spirit in because of that exchange.

Thomas (00:29:54):
So spirits need an access. Then they can't just walk in on our energy. They need an access of permission, but they can be pretty sneaky or deceitful about getting that permission as long as you. And it's almost like a when they talk about computers, communicating to one another, and there's a handshake in a sense, there has to be a handshake with the spirit and the inner and the person's inner world or sub personality. At that point, then the spirit may enter the person's energy and be with in that psychic space. That spirit then may be with them sub personality. And if it's a group of sub personalities, that spirit is going to be with the group. Now, if it's, if it's a sophisticated spirit, it may move on to other things inside that it may have other kinds of intentions or it may remain with that group with one client who was very abused as a child, there was a whole nursery room of infant toddler sub-personalities and there happened to be an earth-bound elderly, female spirit, kind of a grandmother figure. And when I worked with this person, I found that grandmother figure in the room, the nursery room with the infants, she was taking care of them, and the incidents got taken care of. It was kind of a mutual handshake sort of thing. And that was not a very, that was not a threatening one or a dark, but it was just the way one the outside fit with the inside.

Logan (00:31:55):
Yeah. That's very interesting there. So yeah, it's easy to think that these spirits intruding or attaching that are all nefarious, but they're certainly not. So that one, whatever reason that spirit like wanted to provide to care for children and she found this opportunity to, so she was helping to support that. And until the, I guess you did the work with the client and could really heal those infants that was kind of a necessary part to whatever their survival mechanism of that person and calling forth that spirit to help

Thomas (00:32:28):
Exactly the, the, the grandmother just may have been lost or confused, and she may have gotten her own self-worth being able to care for children. So, you know, it was kinda, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours sort of thing. So yeah, those kinds of things happen at that psychic spirit realm. All the time.

Logan (00:32:58):
One of the, another quote in there that stuck out to me was it was the transformation of an ego States consciousness that wasn't essential part of the healing process. Could you speak more to that?

Thomas (00:33:10):
Well, as we talked about earlier, a sub personality is created in an experience and as a conscious being, that's the experience they're living in. What I learned from Gerod, we have not talked about this, but another part of ourselves called the higher self that's a different part of ourselves, but it is the part that knows itself to be part of the soul. The higher self knows the light that we are, but amazingly enough, the higher self also is intelligent as awareness of the life we're leading. And you can bring that light love of energy to the sub personality I'm working with. So to say it another way, higher self is our direct connection to our soul. And the higher shelf thing can bring that direct connection to the sub personalities. Also, sub personalities often have closed off the light in order to cover their pain or to hide it, or because they're angry or the light is blocked to them.

Thomas (00:34:39):
So when I'm working with a sub personality and I will ask them, are they willing for the higher self, the deeper part of the self soul to bring them light love energy. If that's a personality says, yes, the higher self can send that light love energy, and that personality will receive it. And I would say one of the very powerful pieces of evidence where the work we do here is it 99, probably 99.9% of the time that sub personality once it's received the light does not want to be without it. It brings a relief and a comfort, and basically helps that, or move into integration with the conscious show, with the core person. So that light will change the ego States consciousness, the sub-personalities consciousness. It will have an understanding then of itself in relation to the conscious person. And I might even say in terms of the soul that is a central part of the healing process.

Thomas (00:36:05):
And that's how trauma is released and healed with these sub-personalities is to bring that light. The one thing I would add Logan is that that dynamic I just discussed is extremely similar to the reports of the near-death experience. When those people who have left the body go through that tunnel into that light, they will describe receiving this light and with it, the knowledge of maybe their past lives, why they choose, chose to do certain things in this present life, all of that will come to them in this light. It, likewise, that's the way I see this happening with the personalities I, their level is receiving that light. And so it's a really powerful part of the healing.

Logan (00:37:08):
Yeah. Very integral to your approach, as you were saying, is the higher self, and I'm sure many of our listeners have maybe work with the higher self in one format or another. This is, I suppose, one thing, even if you didn't do soul centered healing, like going through the appropriate thing, would you say establishing and trying to cultivate that relationship to the higher self is one of the most beneficial things a person could do it being that kind of go between of the soul and your conscious existence here on earth.

Thomas (00:37:43):
Yeah. I put that pretty close to the top of the list. Yeah. When I work with a client the higher self is one of the first parts. I will establish communication with kind of ads. From my point of view, it's absolutely essential to have good, clear communication with higher self. And then from there, we start to work in the inner world. So that's number one, but number two, I think Gerod himself has said this to me when a person has connected directly with their higher self. And that does happen in, in the healing process. Not, not that it takes that there are a lot of people connected with their higher self. So, so that happens but in the healing process, you certainly will connect with higher self if there's been any difficulties or blocks. And that connection itself, Gerod said would be so valuable to each person. So I, I do see this as central to soul centered healing is this recognition that we are beings of light Iris happens to be our direct connection to that direct line.

Logan (00:39:07):
Do you feel if someone, could someone be receiving the light without, I guess being connected to the high self, or maybe it's not like a conscious kind of connection, but I guess if they're go-between, they kind of have to be

Thomas (00:39:25):
In a sense, a person's always connected to the soul. If not, if, if the soul, if the soul left the body, the body dies. So if you're alive, I'm alive, I'm connected to the soul. In that way, the higher self is like a function of the soul. It's got information, it's got abilities. It has knowledge as well as being that kind of conduit. It's the light, that's the part with the higher self that can become very direct and open to your higher self opening to your soul through the higher self. And I would say there are many, many techniques that religions, spiritual practices, spiritual teachers have to help a person to connect with wake and more deeply to their higher self and soul connection. In some ways, my view has been that soul centered healing moves a person to the point of healing, where then it becomes time for the spiritual teacher to kind of take over and help that person continue opening their spiritual journey, traveling further on that spiritual journey. So I think soul centered healing does a lot of that, but you move on from there too, right?

Logan (00:40:58):
Yeah. Another important part beyond the high self is the protective part. And what you were saying in there that kind of like when you started treating the ego States as their own entities, that was like a big breakthrough. Once you started really working with the protective part the getting stuck working with the clients also went dramatically down. So can you speak about this protective part?

Thomas (00:41:27):
Yeah. The protective part was identified by Gerod before even understanding the ego States as conscious beings. And basically what Gerod eventually was describing is that the protective part is a part of our conscious mind, but it is separate from our conscious self it's aware in the present. That's where its awareness is focused and its purpose its function is to, is survival of the body. Number one. But I think there's also a sense that it protects at other levels also appropriate for us humans in terms of protecting us against the emotional threat pain or hurt, or even protecting one from intellectual confusion or disturbance. So anyway, the protective part is always aware in the present and will react to any threat, especially a physical threat. So it is always where the body is. It's not thinking about you going to the grocery store tonight and whether it has to kind of protect and be aware of, it's not, it doesn't do that.

Thomas (00:42:58):
It's in the present. When you get to the grocery store tonight, it'll be aware of what who's around you, what's going on. Because again, it's focus is where the body is in the present moment. So when I sit down with a client and we're going to begin the process of soul centered healing, and I kind of explained to the client kind of what we're going to be doing. I know at the same time I'm talking to the protective part and it's listening to me it's in protective mode and I want to protect a part to understand we are only here to help. We're not bringing up trauma just to get the client here or distressed or disturbed. We're here to help that trauma finally you're resolved. So I would communicate with the protective part directly. And this is the part that Gerod suggested communicate to this protective part and make sure it understands what we're doing back before I learned about the protective part and I was working with people and their trauma we'd enter into the hypnosis and I would begin to identify areas of trauma. I would get all kinds of blocks. And so many times there was a shutdown. It was only later after with Gerod. I understood that all those times, those people's protective part probably saw me as a bull in a China shop. And I was, I was going to be upsetting everything. So once I was able, once I knew about protective part communicated with it directly with each client and had his permission to continue that block and reduced probably 85 90%,

Logan (00:45:01):
Sorry if it feels like I'm jumping around a lot of different places here, but and I hope the listeners are gaining some of this. If you really do want to go deeper, I highly encourage Tom's book, soul centered healing and the follow-ups, if you want to go even deeper than that, I've been recommending them to a bunch of people. I guess I wanted to go more into, even more into the metaphysical for when the light versus the dark and how that's explained and how these, I guess, how they were explained to us forces more so than like a personified God and Satan and how these forces are interacting within I guess not just our world and our souls, but beyond that could you speak a bit to that massive subject?

Thomas (00:45:48):
Yeah, that's a big one. Logan, I guess first I w I w I would want to emphasize number one, that my, my approach has always been experiential. It started with clinical, and that's why Gerrard was so valuable to me. When I talk with Gerod, I did get into metaphysical questions, but a lot of his questions related to the clinical stuff I was seeing or going through. And the problem here also is that in talking about light and dark as primal forces, we only have mythical kind of mythic kinds of language. Right? And so I would want everybody listening to understand we're not talking like little reality as much as concepts that have energy, right? So Gerod's story is that the darkness existed first. And Gerod did not try to explain it, but said that the light grew out of the darkness came out of the darkness and that the light wants it in a sense, burst forth at some point that the light created soul and way I understand it is in a sense, the light, the creator, the divine created clones of itself, independent centers of consciousness in light that did have, it could potentially be aware of their own power to create without boundary.

Thomas (00:47:39):
Gerod said that when those souls are created, in a sense, the universe being taken over by the light at the darkness reacted, he says, the darkness is the opposite of light. It's not that the dark was angry or wanting to pick a fight, or the darkness is not the light. It's, it's going to want to stop the light whenever it comes. So the darkness reacted in wanting to stop this process of the divine, creating more light that was going to create more light. So Gerod's story is in our physical plane was created, and it's a level of reality in which darkness and light can coexist.

Thomas (00:48:37):
And it's a reality which gives souls and even playing field. When they incarnate here, they have a choice there's darkness here, there's light here. And that choice is what helps the soul to grow. Even though it may take lifetimes, as Gerod says, souls have all the time in the world, you can have as many lifetimes as they need to grow. And what Gerod described as a soul awakening to itself as that divine light. Now that's all mythic language. It is well above our pay grade level. But it talks about that awakening to our soul consciousness and that each of us, our lifetime is a chapter or part in that awakening.

Logan (00:49:43):
Yeah, no, I think that was a great encapsulation and obviously then grounding it more down. But the importance of recognizing that we all are all beings of light yet we may get trapped or parts of us may get trapped in refusing that light whether, because they're scared, traumatized, we're told they can't access the light. All these things are, I think, important in recognizing, especially for one to go, you know, beyond physical healing to those, those higher or different perspectives of healing. Being able to understand the light, even if we don't have the right words for it and really try to strive towards it.

Thomas (00:50:28):
Yeah. You know, not my guess is that most people have had at least one or two experiences of the light directly in the sense of having fallen in love or having just a brilliant insight brings things together for them, which is the knowledge or having an emotional thing where they felt at one with the universe, this stuff is certainly happening today with the psychedelics. So I would say almost everybody has had a least a glimpse or an experience of that light, that being together at some level. And I can also imagine a lot of people getting blocked early on in life as children because of the kinds of neglect, abuse, poverty pain, it happens. And can block people even from feeling themselves as light and can block people from feeling loved. And to me, that's a big issue and that's for healing partly as well.

Logan (00:51:54):
Yeah. And it, once again, to ground that into reality that the results speak for themselves that getting more in touch with the life and healing these ego States sub-personalities spirits, whatever happens to be involved, like one of my criticisms of your first book was I wish there was more detail of your clients, but then that massive case study at the end of your third book, I read through that one with John there. And that also speaks to the complexity of it. I didn't realize that it, I guess my question is, is that kind of a typical case because you did something like 200 sessions with them. He had some various very traumatic incidences and all this, so many ego say it, like there was something like a hundred different ego States or spirits you dealt with in that. Is that kinda typical or with your other clients? Was it just like a few sessions or did it span the gamut more complex and sometimes simpler?

Thomas (00:52:56):
The Haman was, John was w was more complex. I debated whether to include it in the book as an example, because I figured it was probably people out. Yeah. But John, John was severely abused and Jen, he also had a very serious learning disability and and abuse occurred to him several different times in his life. By the time he reached his early twenties. So I chose the book because he was a severe and almost, almost doubly abused one on one abuse on top of the other. So in that sense, I decided to include it. It is a more severe case.

Logan (00:54:02):
Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. It's my next question. Like, there's a, obviously a radical transformation for him, but in your mind, what would a person that I guess resolved every trauma, like every ego say everything became integrated was I guess, purely light with no, no aspects, no parts that were not dealing with it. What would that person look like?

Thomas (00:54:34):
Well, the goal of healing is integration. And so just talking about sub-personalities and healing, sub-personalities the goal is for those sub-personalities to receive light, no, they're part of the self and move into a place of integration, which we can describe it as a place of harmony with the conscious self. Gerod talks about that place of integration in a sense is right behind looking outward through the eyes. Once it's integrated is now PRA now aware of present reality. And it's not like those little sub personalities are always looking out, but they can look out there. Now they're now up to date with the conscious self. So a person who has that level of integration, the terms I use, the three CS are, and the goals of healing are to be clear to be centered confidence. And it would mean that a person now is not being triggered from the past.

Thomas (00:55:49):
The sub personalities are not being triggered and causing confusion or mixing them up from what's what the person is now able to see what's happening in the present clearly. And what's them. And what's the other person. It also gives a person the confidence in the sense of they knew where they're at right now with this person talking about this or dealing with that, or, and that is where they're at. And they're not again being diverted, distracted or triggered by other stuff. So that clarity and that confidence and being centered that's part of the confidence is again, always being able to refer to your own center that you have choice. You always have choice, and that is powerful, and you don't have to necessarily be making all these conscious choices, because there are things you you're quite comfortable with you've chosen before, but you do have the choice. And that, that is the center. So being clear and being centered, being confident is when the person is bringing these things together, their higher connection with their higher self.

Thomas (00:57:17):
And I would also add Logan that turns to higher self. I will communicate with each person's higher self also to make sure that higher self is in good, strong connection with that person's highest level, spirit guide. So that happens early on also, but that's part of that integration that even though I may not have direct communication with my guy, we don't sit down and have a conversation. Some people do. But that connection is open. That connection is active. I invited, I permitted. So that's another part of living in that kind of connected, integrated reality. Excellent.

Logan (00:58:07):
That makes a lot of sense. I'm curious about addiction. I certainly have an addictive personality. I've had my own battles there, nothing super crazy compared to some other people out there, but I'm curious with this, that you work with many clients that had addicted addictions and how much of that was, I guess, just the personalities versus other spirits. I kind of have this feeling or have heard from other places that, you know being a spirit, not connected to the light may kind of feed off the darkness of like the negative emotions in addiction or in other cases. Yeah. What's your experience around those?

Thomas (00:58:48):
Yeah, that's a, that's a big subject and it is difficult because as humans with human nature, we tend towards addiction, meaning repetitive patterns. The more we have a repetitive pattern, the less energy we have to give to it. So we don't have to be concentrating and thinking about everything we do 24 hours a day. So there is a survival value, a high survival value for repetitive patterns. Now when they become addictive when they control us when we feel we can exercise very little or no choice about them then yes, then they become an issue. And because they are so naturally based and can get out of hand, then it becomes difficult to start to say when when's enough, enough kind of thing, right. We know the extremes when addiction, when it's enough, but in terms of soul centered healing, very often it is sub personalities or external entities that are involved in driving that pattern. And of course, addictions, addictions creating kind of pleasurable sort of experience, whether it's feels like a relief it's pleasurable. So there's a lot going for it to be repeated. So when I'm working with someone where there is addiction, I will work in the inner world for parts of the cell, four separate ones involved in the addiction. And you usually not always will refer the client to also work with an addiction program to have that support. Because again, it's, it's a physical thing it, right. And it involves brain and it involves the neuronal pathways. So you're trying to attack it kind of each level. Yep. No. Yeah.

Logan (01:01:19):
An hour has flown by where can people go to learn more about this? So you can talk a little bit more about your books. And I'm also curious, I know you are retired now, but can, if people are interested in doing this, can you refer them to practitioners?

Thomas (01:01:36):
Okay. the people can go to my website, which is soul centered, healing.net, all one word, no hyphen. And on the website is also the information about the books I've written. And I would recommend for anyone the first book, what I call the blue book, the blue cover, because it's the story of Gerod. And it's the story of how this work came together. The second two books are more really addressing hypnotherapists and how to do this process. But I would add people who are interested will find a lot of information there. They just need to know that I'm talking from a hypnotherapist.

Thomas (01:02:34):
As far as where to go, this is probably my biggest struggle. I am just now starting a training group, which I hope to start after the first of the year now. And that'll be the first training group I do. If there's the interest, I will be doing more. If a person were interested in training, they could contact me through my website and then I would put them on a list or they could join the email list because I do send out announcements. But they could let me know when I start a group, I, I then would have another announcement.

Logan (01:03:25):
Excellent. Well, I, I definitely see that this world needs more of this work, so I hope some people take some interest and hopefully if anyone on this call listening will reach out to you if that feels like the right step for them. Thank you so much, Tom. This has been great. And as I said, I mean, your, your work has been impactful for me already, even though I haven't gotten super deep into the specific protocols or anything like that. So thank you very much.

Thomas (01:03:50):
All right. Well, you take care and I thank you for the invitation. It's been a nice doc. Great. Thank you. Thanks everyone for listening. Take care of Logan.