Transformative Psychotechnologies with Chris Plough

00:19 Welcome back. We continue with part two of the interview with Chris Plough. If you missed the previous part, you're going to want to go back and listen to that because you'll hear the story of how Chris Plough ended up with a shotgun in his mouth and went through decades of suicidal cycles. Now we turn our focus more, which we began in that conversation, but towards the things that got him out of this and really changed his life in a dramatic way with four or five psycho technologies. And by that I mean the technology is not in the high tech sense, but tools and methods that can be used to really transform psychology, your mind, your emotions, all aspects of health because they're all linked together. Let's dive right back in. So that was the pivot point and continuing to talk to people, share the story, connect with them was a huge thing. But then I know you've been on a journey of uncovering layers of this and really filling that hole, becoming understanding that you are worthy, right? What other tools or journeys or other things happen along the way? What got you from that turning point to now?

01:31 Yeah, there are a lot, and I think there's going to be a few that are probably very, very useful to your audience in particular. I know we're going to go down those and I'm fascinated too, but I can't go over the full realm. So the first thing I did, and this was back when I was 33 I hit it a very, very deep burnout, and I had made the choice. Part of this was good planning. Part of this was just pure luck, but I made the choice to stop everything that I was doing for a little while, including the company that I was responsible for and to drive an ambulance with two friends from the UK to Mongolia, 10,000 miles. Right. And essentially what I did is I ended up not realizing it. It wasn't conscious, but I use this adventure as a way to completely get out of my patterns in life and in this space of adventure in this time where I was driving 10,000 miles and it took us, you know, a month and a half to do, there was a lot of time of just ass in seat time where you had nothing to do but think and to feel.

02:31 And I began to reconnect with a lot of things in my life. And so the first was that I used in experience, I use this very unlike my normal life experience to create a different space in life and to have a different feeling and to reconnect in a different way. And I continue to do that. Like me, I'd be going on adventures every year and I still continue to because that's one of the ways that I find this opening in life. Another way that I found was, it was just the year after that that I ended up applying and to open the kimono with a Tim Ferris, which was this first very, very deep group get together of incredible people, but everybody was open and everything else and it was where I met many people who are in my friend circle now who have helped me forward, you know, Joey Coleman was there, Jason Gaignard, so on and so forth.

03:18 So I developed a more meaningful and more connected and a more open relationship with people who are also growing who I could learn from. A third was I joined a mastermind where we began to share everything in our lives and so I began to get this habit of sharing more and more like the good and the bad in business, the good and the bad in personal life, the good and the bad and relationships, and that allowed me to become more and more open. Fourth, I really began to go deep into meditation and reflection and awareness so that I became intimately aware of what was actually going on within my mind. What was going on within the body, what was going on with the unconscious? What was I actually feeling? And to be able to have the courage to sit with it as opposed to try to change it.

03:59 And then along those lines, for me, very early on, this must have been back, I think 2011 was when I first began to experiment. I utilized medicines and psychedelics in order to essentially provide an experience where I could gain greater clarity into this being that is Chris Plough. Because there was so much of me that I couldn't even see or I didn't understand or I wasn't in touch with. And I began using that to literally disassemble everything that I had created. That was my ego structure. It was, you know, where I got my confidence from what it was I do, my identity. Everything in life I began to disassemble to understand what is the essential Chris Plough? Who is Chris Plough with all of these things? Who was I born to be? What is my soul? And get down to those levels. And sometimes even on lighter doses just to have conversations with my unconscious and literally talk back and forth.

04:50 I would sit down with a laptop at times literally and type questions and then have answers come back through that. And then finally the just being able to, and especially in the past two years for me essentially putting all of these tools together, the adventure, the relationships, the very, very clear communication with others, the psychedelics and the medicine, the meditation and having them all coalesce into my life in a way where I felt this insane and intense, beautiful soul healing and then especially in the last year, began to put that forth to help other people and found that all of these things that I've been through in life, the good, the bad, the otherwise all these tools I had learned for self-understanding, recognition and becoming a realized actualized person that I could apply them to help other people. So they had a purpose and meaning outside of me.

05:42 That's a long answer to a question that you asked, but that's the path. Like that's the path of putting all of these together. And for me, all of them are just as valid. Right. You know, some people choose to embrace psychedelics, some don't. Some choose to embrace meditation, some don't. Some choose to embrace relationships. I think most people, I think that's a really core one that you can't really, really go without in this particular lifetime, but you could also be among those who chooses to go up the mountain, have a just a relationship with self. So I guess that one is optional as well, right? Or nature or nature with God or whatever else. So there is a relationship there, but I needed all of them to see the whole of me and all of them have been integral to getting to where I am now.

06:23 So you've mentioned you kind of started with this stuff around 33 then you have that conversation with your friend at 39 which kind of shines new light. Do you feel that you would not have been does obviously like the first time you did psychedelics or the first time you tried meditation, it's not like, Oh, I'm no longer suicidal. That was it. Mostly longterm journeys, long term process. And a lot of people are kind of looking for the like one thing that changes everything. I often like after a psychedelic journey it's like everything's different but nothing is different and it can be very interesting. But so my question is do you feel all that work was kind of leading up in your saying, even in the mastermind, the business groups and whatnot, like you were sharing more than previously you had, even if it was just business stuff. And that kinda got you in the position to really have this conversation that happened with your friend. Would you say that's accurate?

07:20 Yeah, 100% and the, I was fortunate that the mastermind I was in was also when we're like every aspect of life was looked at. So I would share in business, but we'd share on the personal side would share on the relationship side. And you know I was sharing to a substantial depth, but I wasn't sharing the things that were scariest to me yet and it just wasn't ready.

07:41 Yeah. I have to ask now. Like you've had lots of these conversations, you've gone very deep. You really opened up in many different ways. I'm sure there's still, is there still things that you're scared of talking about things you haven't got

07:55 Sharing less the of talking. But so now it's, it's the point of, of being in doing so I've essentially literally disassembled myself to the point and reassembled myself from a point of I believe that I understand my soul. I believe that I understand my being right. And in the past three years of this journey, especially, it felt like I've been a Caterpillar in a Chrysalis and everything's been dissolving and everything's been reforming. And I'm at the point now where it's like the butterfly needing to re-emerge from that cocoon. And so the thing that I find fearful, I think there's always things that we find fearful. It's just part of the human experience. It's not the conversations and it's not seeing or understanding myself now. It's like expressing myself and being seen in this completely unarmored in this completely Chris' Plough in the completely me way in the world, right?

08:47 Like that is something that both literally excites me to my core and like quakes me to my core. And so yeah, that's the leading edge of my own development is this expression and being essentially. So rather than thinking about it rather than wondering about it rather than searching for it, et cetera. Like I know me and now I just have to be me and Oh dude, what an incredible time. But I'll tell you like there are times that even that can be overwhelming and I need to sit back and do some care for myself because it feels scary as well.

09:21 Yeah. When you're growing then the things that you used to fear, you can handle those but then you come across new things, right?

09:30 Yeah. And you find more ease with it over time. Like it's, so this is happening faster and faster and faster with me because I'm able to lean in each day. And then once you get used to some of these tools, like I would depend heavily on psychedelics to get to a point of connection with self because it was the only way I knew how to get there. But over time, you know, between developing the neuro pathways and understanding the path there and everything else. Like I found ways back just through meditation and I have meditations that take me into that very similar state, even to the point where my visual field can begin to be affected in an almost psychedelic way just for meditation. Right? Or the moments that I wake up in the morning and that little brief few seconds or minutes from when I awakened to when the mind is like fully, there is this beautiful space.

10:13 And so I've essentially created a life where I have just a lot of at bats. So rather than I'll journey, you know, once a week or once a month, there are all these different things that I would do overtime. Like I get to do this daily now. And so in this daily practice, I get to make progress daily and I get to face these things daily and I get to care for myself daily and I get to feel connected daily and it moves faster and faster. And I've learned that each time I do this, that even though in the moment it feels so scary, it almost feels life or death at times that just on the other edge of that is this enormous relief. And so begin to train the nervous system to look forward to that relief as opposed to being afraid of this moment right now.

10:56 Right. There's a quote out there that I love that is like this too shall pass. Whether you're feeling great or you're feeling in danger or you're feeling sad or whatever else, like it will pass, it'll come through and I just remember that. And so then it allows me to stay with it. But, but along there, the thing that's shifted for me, and I know I'm going on a little of a tangent, but I think this is a really, really important note is because I was so highly driven before, like I would push myself to do things when I went to, you know, jump off cliffs in New Zealand or do bungee jumping or whatever. Like I would literally just force like it was like pushing my body like we are not going to stop. We're going to do this. And now I've come to a place that's very different where I don't force things, I rarely, rarely force things anymore. And I have this immense love and compassion for myself and that means that I'm actually caring for myself in the process of doing these things and at the internal emotional very raw me feels more cared for. And so it's more willing to lean into these things. And that shift from aggressively pushing or driving to compassionately supporting and still stepping forward has huge impacts on how I feel about myself and how I get to interact with other people.

12:14 And you mentioned you had these several different tools, the meditation relationship with other people, psychedelic adventure. Did I miss one there?

12:23 Is there one more? I was literally doing that inflow, so I've got to think for a second adventure. Psychedelics relationships with others. I think just do you have general relationships and then you also have like those people that you sit down and have the most core deep conversations with who are willing to illuminate your blind spots and deep self-connection whether that's for some people it's meditation, some people it's walking is like some people's journaling, like whatever that deep connection is for you just to be able to do that fun.

12:52 So I want to point this out for other people as you were saying, these tools, they work great for some people, not for everyone and the mix of tools, but I think that's a very good key thing is one you had to like try out a lot of stuff. I mean you could probably list 20 things that didn't really work well for you. Right? So there's so many opportunities, healing methods, different self-awareness methods out there to try a bunch of things, find the mix that works for you because no one thing is a magic bullet, although there can be those magical times in life. There is, it's really a lot of stuff. And as you were saying before, and one of the things I wanted to drill into on this is with these tools, what specifically, in what way did they help you? You're mentioning that that connection to self really came from the psychedelics, but now you can really get there similarly just in meditation, but for people that may be interested in pursuing one of these paths, what do you feel are the strengths of the different tools that you've used?

13:51 Hmm. So like the whole like just go to someplace that's outside of your normal environment, whether that's an adventure or travel or whatever else, just it's, it's so easily accessible. You can jump in your car now and if you're listening to the weekend, if you have a job and everything else, you can literally just take a weekend road trip and that is enough to get you out of the space that you're normally in and it's just so easily accessible. Right. So accessibility for that and accessibility, it's completely legal. Great. when you think about relationships and everything else, I just, we're human. We're wired for connection and so we want those relationships anyways. And I think that no matter who you are, and I know this in my life going forward as well, I'm going to stumble. I'm going to fall. There are going to be times when the support of others is going to be helpful and me continuing forward and there's going to be times when the people I'm with stumble and fall and I get to help them forward. I think that that is incredible to begin to create now because longer-term efficacy on this path, I believe that it's one of the better, better think. It's one of the best investments that you can make,

14:52 Right? And very important for health. Just like physical health too. I mean studies showing that the, the social relations we have is probably more, you could eat the worst diet. If you have a really good social circle, you're better off then vice versa. Not, not important. Hopefully get a social circle that once you improve that along with you as well. But yeah, I think that's, and as you were saying, it's a long term thing. You got to play the long game with all this stuff, right?

15:16 100% Oh, when we get into psychedelics and medicine the beauty of it is, it was really helpful for me is it showed me a place that I didn't know existed and it did. So without having to have incredible skill, right? I can get there through meditation now, but it would've taken me a long time, potentially even years to develop that skill in which cases, a lot of times I could have fallen off the bandwagon or lost faith or whatever else, right? So the fact that it can take you to a place of understanding self or a place of feeling more oneness or a place of feeling full or just a place of honesty and it can take you there and you need no skill in order to do so, you just have to, to go with the experience and hopefully be supported by somebody who's loving and caring around you to make sure you're okay. That is insanely good about it. The one bit of advice I always give to people is though medicine is beautiful and very useful and always optional. Like it is literally just showing you something that exists within you and has always existed within you and so the medicine is never necessary but it can be helpful.

16:14 It's a quick path, quick rep there and with some potential danger on the dark side, so you have to be careful with it. Absolutely

16:22 Do be careful. Rick respected like there was an incredible reverence that I have for it and a sacredness that I hold for it. The meditation and the path to understanding self and really going down that route is I think ultimately for me has been the best kind of long-term game that I could play, but it took a while to develop these skills and it took a while to find the types of meditations that actually worked for me. It took a while to understand that I had this toolkit of meditations or this toolkit of mindset things that I could do and each one helps me in a slightly different way and I've learned how to apply them when I have the need. Sometimes I just need to feel loved and connected. Sometimes I need to be very present with the body. Sometimes I need to literally just release myself to go into more of a theta or even gamma state.

17:04 And in there just experience this fullness in this oneness and this connection outside of myself that is intensely healing. Right? And so what I also love about it is that it can never be taken away. It's completely illegal. And even if I am locked and strapped down in a gurney and hospital bed in the middle of some insane asylum, which I don't believe will ever happen, but just to say that is, it's accessible to me no matter what at all times in all places and all reasons. And so I carry it with me and that brings me an incredible sense of safety and peace, knowing that that is always with me. And then, you know, just the willingness to have deep conversations with other people. I think that's just an incredible skill, right? It's a gift to be able to constructively and lovingly and compassionately show somebody something that they need to see in order to have a better life and to be willing to receive that same thing you know, and have, that is just a beautiful skill because it's not done out of criticism.

18:02 It's not done out of tearing people down. It's not done out of a being attacked, right? They ALS, it's done in the most kind, compassionate, caring way so that we can all go forward. And where I think this leads into, if I just go one more step forward is in the past year I spent a lot of time really sitting down because I realized that come to this like sense of wholeness within me that was deeper than I could imagine before. And I began to wonder, ponder this question. It's like, great, I'm here and I love me now. I love me. What an awesome thing. And I was like, but what do I love more than me? Like what is it like? Is there anything that I love more than me? And if it can be surprisingly a long time to think of anything that I loved more than me, which may sound a little self-centered, but you know, like there's a real years

18:44 Without loving you. You needed to bask in that glow for a little while.

18:47 Yeah. Do it 100%. And I think that we are wired this way. There's nothing wrong with loving yourself, but the one thing that I came down to, I love more than me was us like, that's the only word that I can think of. But I mean, us as humanity, I mean, us as my friends, I mean us as those who choose to step forward and explore and grow. I mean, us in all of those ways, all conscious beings combined together, not singularly, but us being together is the one thing that I love more than me. And then that brought additional meaning to my life to go great. Then the purpose of my life is also then beyond me, which was insanely helpful because there are times when I get tired, there are times and I get worn out. There are times and I'm like, ah, can we just stop growing? Can I just watch Netflix for a week? You know? And there are times when I feel really worn out and if it's just for me that I'm willing to take a break for awhile, it's just for me that I'm willing to sometimes be lazy, you know? But if I really consider that this journey is for us and man, I'm on this and I'm in and that really helped me as well.

19:59 And the more I think about it, the more I see the interconnections between these different tools and methods. For example, going on adventure because you're broken out of your normal routine and habits that's going to facilitate being able to go deeper into conversation. Right? And even, you know, sometimes it's easier to have a deep conversation with a stranger or someone you just met, someone you know intimately for whatever reason

20:24 You elucidated that just perfectly. And thank you for sharing that. I, yeah, thank you for that. I think another thing with it is it begins to train you to embrace change, right? Because essentially at the end of all of this, like what the ego and what the unconscious and everything else is, is most scared of. Even when you're in these darkest places, it's scared of change because even in these darkest places, at least it's predictable and at least a sense of the sameness and a sense of safety with it. And the biggest things that I experienced where it would be that adrenaline dump are when that internal part of me, that emotional part of me feels like it's everything is going to change and everything is out of control. And then because of what I experienced previously in life, it's expecting the worst. Right? And so to be able to embrace change and see in life have like real experiences that begin to inform and change that wiring to go.

21:15 A change isn't that bad. And B, often when change happens, the better comes, right? Yeah. Sometimes it can be difficult. Sometimes some bad stuff happens as well, but more often I've been blessed with more. I did this thing called a life scroll last year and I wrote every experience that I can remember for all 43 years of my life at that time, 42 but I continue at each year and here's the places I lived. Here's the emotions I remember feeling here. Some key moments happen. But I also went through and wrote down like the hurts and the blessings like the hurts where the things that just hurt me more than anything. Blessings, you know, blessed be more than anything and both effected my life very, very dramatically. And there's more to this now. But for the one part that I'll share at this moment I think it is helpful.

21:55 When I finally went down and listed all the hurts versus blessings I had at that point 47 hurts in my life. And I had, I believe I might be a little off in this number, 137 blessings. And so they're literally three times as many blessings. Right? And to see that brought a deeper awareness, that change, cause these were all change-makers within my life. That change was three times as likely to be positive as it was negative. And that began to allow me to more consciously rewire my operating system and my neurology and my nervous system to expect the positive even while preparing for something that may not be positive and how many of those hurts became blessings do so. Thank you. I will go full in. Like I sat down with each one, you know, the first was I sat down with whiz, my father, a biological natural father, choosing not to be in my life.

22:44 And as I wrote about it, wrote about and wrote about, wrote about it, like I got to the end of it and I was like, Oh crap. I'm like, this was actually a blessing. It was a blessing. And I felt it not just intellectually cause there's an intellectual knowing there's a deep body knowing I was like, this is a blessing. And so I literally wrote about every, all 47 of those hurts. And without forcing it, without expecting it to turn one way or the other, every single one of them became a blessing. And I just realized I've been, that at that point had, you know, over 200 blessings in my life. Some of them happened to be a little painful, some of them have to be a little pleasurable, but that was the only difference. Every one of them was crucial to me. Being here, every one of them led to a better place in life. Every one of them I was insanely grateful for. And that further shifted how I look at life as well and has been insane. I can feel it in my chest right now as we're talking. Like I feel this expansion happening even in talking about this like deeply, deeply rewarding [inaudible]

23:46 Of the psychedelics. There's a wide range out there and I know you have some experience across a good many of those different ones, just like these tools we've been talking about, meditation versus psychedelics versus conversations, all of this, they seem to have like a kind of sweet spot where they help the most and they all tend to bring awareness of self and some different things like these, especially if used in that manner. But could you pinpoint maybe like a few of the ones you've used most had best success with for yourself as well as other people? Hands down. The one that I've had the most experience with and the one I just

24:21 Had the most access to and I develop the most trust with was siliciden. Psilocybin is the one I found two things. One is that it showed me the truth and allowed me to connect to my unconscious and to see reality more clearly outside of the lens that was allowing to fog things up. But then it also brought pleasurable experiences. One of my first experiences with it, I was, I didn't know anybody who did these things, so I had to teach myself. So I was playing with very small doses. One of my first decent experiences, I sat down to watch being Elmo on Netflix and it's this guy who like spent his whole life puppeteering everything else and got to become Elmo. The beautiful thing about the stories, you get to see somebody doing the thing they love and bringing joy to the world and everything else.

25:03 And I just remember feeling so full of joy for this person and so full of love and everything else. And that was a formative experience with that medicine because it brought all those feelings into my life in such a deep, visceral way. So very, very helpful for that end because depending on your dosage level, you can have very different experiences. And for me, hands down the most impactful and the most trusted LSD I had some experiences with, it doesn't feel as comfortable to me. It feels digital. And so it's not a favorite, but it has brought truth in just lifting the veil without bias is what it feels like. It's like, it's like amplifying me versus putting me into contact with some other type of intelligence. MDMA is, and people should look up studies on this. Incredible for what it can do for releasing trauma.

25:56 It is incredible, like the effect it's had with people with PTSD and long term trauma over the course of one or two therapeutic sessions. Doing a, you know, with therapy, with a therapist in this guided place is incredible. And I'm gonna get this statistic wrong, so please people look it up for yourself. But it's something like, you know, 80% of people treated saw a reversal, their PTSD symptoms permanently in one to two sessions. Like it is that dramatic in that powerful. And then there are others out there. You've got st Pedro on the cactus, you've got the eye Evine I've had some experience with that, but I'm actually going to have a deeper experience later this year traveling to a place where it's legal to do it. That's another little note I'll put on this is, you know, there's questionable legality on these things and I just warn people to please be careful.

26:46 I personally believe that it is a God-given, right? Whatever you believe God is, it doesn't matter to me. Like I believe it is wholeness and oneness, but it's a birthright. We'll use that word to have a direct and loving and understanding connection with our own consciousness. And so that's the way I see these things. As it becomes more and more public, I've chosen then to ensure that I am always on the right side of the law so that I can talk about these things openly, cleanly and clearly and know that I'm not in danger of being incarcerated. But as you're exploring, please be careful yourself because in some places these are legal. In some places, they're not. They are becoming more and more legal even in the US and so I would encourage you to explore the places where they are so you can truly explore without the fear of repercussions.

27:30 And then a five Emil five MEO, which is the toad and is the most powerful psychedelic that there is. I've had an interesting relationship with that one where my first experience with it, I was very locked in and the ego and myself were very afraid and terrified of going and I was actually administered twice the, the normal blast off white off a out dose in total and refuse to go. And instead of like going off to, you know, explore another universe or another reality or another dimension. I literally went into every cell of my body. But I also found that insanely healing and insanely comforting. And so I, the reason I share that is just to say just because one person has had an experience on one of these medicines does not mean you're going to have the same experience. There are so, so dependent upon your mindset.

28:18 They're so dependent on your view of the world. They're so dependent on your setting. They're so, you know, set and setting is what you'll hear over and over again. They're dependent upon your biology, that dependent upon your diet, they're dependent upon all of these things. So the willingness to do this in a place where you feel absolutely safe and cared for and the place when you're in a good mindset and you're, you know, know that you're going to be okay. And the ability to release expectations that just because Joe had this experience or Chris had this experience does not mean that I'm going to have this experience and instead I'm willing to allow this to take me to where I need to go to best heal will serve you very, very well.

28:57 Yeah, I'd say I did notice everything you said there. I think that's right on. Definitely check in to the legality. It is wonderful that we're kind of going into a new psychedelic Renaissance and if you just looked like there's some 30, 40 different universities that are doing research on these for a wide range of things like you, Chris siliciden has been my go-to. The main one I have received tremendous benefit from. I've found it really good to like handle addiction as well. And there's some research on that and in doing, yeah. I also want to say, you know, find someone that is skilled in administering this, whether that is a therapist or like a showman and you can also do self-directed, but be very, very careful with that. And I have done that and also burned myself doing that. You do very much want to be careful. But I think because it is such a helpful tool for so many people, I am happy to see that more research is being done. More people are understanding this and it's a subject we'll be covering more in future episodes of this podcast.

30:04 Beautiful. And as I, like I, most of my stuff was all self directed in the beginning because I didn't know anybody else. And quite honestly at the point I was, I didn't trust anybody else.

30:12 Well the legality also makes that harder and kind of forces it on.

30:16 Yeah. And so just be really careful with that though. The last thing I'll say on it, and this is a personal point of view, if you're listening, you do not have to accept this. I always believe this with my points of view. I'll share them, but it's all completely onto use where you take them on. But I believe we are entering this new psychedelic Renaissance and I believe that in doing that, each of us has some responsibility to be very responsible with these so that they aren't used in ways that lead towards them being completely cracked down upon and completely made illegal again. And we have to wait 2030 40 50 years before we get this chance again. So be careful with them and use them with, with respect and, and the sacredness that I believe that they weren't and use them carefully. And the other point about this is it's an incredible expense.

31:03 So what are you going into this adventure? Or you've had a life-changing event. Like I lost my parents at a point in my life and that was a life-changing event. Or you go on a psychedelic journey, you have that life-changing event. All of these things essentially break this moment of awareness and this openness to you and you, you get all of these insights and everything else. But I'll be brutally honest with you, you don't get any gains until they've been integrated into your life. It's like having a beautiful dream and a lot of inspiration. But all of the gains are made during integration. So to make sure you take the time to not just great, I get to go on another journey and then a few days or a week or a month or whatever else to like process and you know, understand the lesson and integrate it and make some shifts in the patterns in your life and everything else so that you're ready for the next one.

31:48 And quite honestly, I know, you know, some people go like full into this and I have, so I'm completely preaching from a point of having been there where it's like, okay great. Every week we're doing this. Every week we're going to run through this. Again, I'm a driven person, so are many people listening to this level up faster, level up faster, that's completely unnecessary in most cases and counterproductive like at the most, I would imagine, you know, once a month. And you know, even towards me if now like exploring and doing this in other places completely legally and everything else, man, once a quarter at the most, and I'm trending towards maybe once a year. But again, I'm using these other tools to get daily insights and so I continue to move forward and so again, just know that they don't have to be done all the time and like you really make all your gains during integration and please be responsible both because I love and care and I want you to be well and because I want humanity to continue to have access to these tools for as long as possible.

32:51 Right? Yeah. And I feel that's another reason why you need multiple tools in your toolbox, right? The meditation, journaling a bunch of different things, relationships with people and communication. Those are tools that are then going to help you ground out inexperienced like this. And it doesn't just have to be psychedelic. Same thing if you go on some wild, crazy adventure, right? You need to ground that into your experience in order for there to be lasting change. As I said before, sometimes it feels like everything's different, but then you get back to your life, you get back to your normal routine and nothing is different. It is grounding practice that allows you to take those, the theorial things, what those wild thoughts, those embodied experiences, those state changes, the different things that occur and be able to really bring them forward in your life.

33:39 Well, well said and along the way try to remember to have a little bit of fun as well, right? Like this experience of life I believe is meant to be joyful even though we often have suffering in it and I know that I have a propensity to get very serious with these days and okay, I'm going to do this work. I find the joy in it as well and allow it to be light and allow yourself to laugh at yourself and the silliness of it all and I think that that's going to make the journey a lot more fun as well. I don't think, I know from experience it's going to make the journey a lot more fun.

34:10 Maybe it will be led in on the cosmic joke. The cosmic joke is we're here. All right Chris, this has been an absolute blast. We've actually gone a little bit over an hour. Any final thoughts or anywhere you want people to head to, to check out more information? I know you've got a book coming down the pipeline though. That may be a way out. Yeah. What do you want people to know?

34:35 Yeah, so I'll be brutally honest. I'm just beginning to kind of come out into public about a lot of these things. So if you want to like reach out to me or see some stuff, I'm doing Chris, Plough.com. It's very much unformed. But it will continue to be formed throughout this year. I'm writing a book about the story and the process I found out of suicide and depression in order to help people with that path that will be released this year. And more than anything, please just be safe, be kind, be caring with yourself, be compassionate with others as much as you're able to and grow Explorer experience. My hope in this world for me is that I get to be me as much as possible. Chris Plough gets to Chris, Plough his little butt off and just enjoy Chris Ploughing around this world and for each person I want them to do the exact thing. I want you to be you and to you like the action of being you as much as you want in this world and to have that freedom and that's my wish for you. Excellent.

35:30 Well thank you so much Chris. I'm sure this podcast will help some people and if you've been listening and really enjoyed this, spread it, reach out to Chris

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