Zeolites with Eddie Stone

Logan (00:05):
Welcome. I'm Logan Christopher from Lost Empire Herbs, and this is the Health Sovereign Podcast. Today with me, I have Eddie Stone, the CEO of Touchstone Essentials. Welcome, Eddie.

Eddie (00:17):
Hey, Logan. Thank you for the chance to be here and to talk with your good folks.

Logan (00:22):
Yeah. Well, so we're gonna be diving deep into Zeolites today, which is a very interesting topic. You know, I, I probably heard about Zeolites the first time, maybe it might have been 10 years ago now, but it, you know, any, any area like this, there's, there's a whole bunch of information and also some, like myths and misconceptions floating around there. So I hope that we're able to clear up all that in today's interview.

Eddie (00:45):
Yeah, a absolutely. I, I think my initial exposure was probably 2005. So I've got a, a few years under my belt with it, and over that time have just continued to grow in my fondness of it and, you know, what it can do to support the body, sort of natural pathways for detox, which is, I think, super important. So I, I look at it as one of the more interesting and, and frankly, critical for good health, just natural minerals that are out there, right. That can really do some big things.

Logan (01:15):
Yeah, absolutely. The, the longer I've been in health, the more I realize, like, detox is such an essential part of it, especially in today's world, more so than in the past. But let's, let's start at the beginning. What are zeolites and they're, how they're made is pretty interesting, so can you start there?

Eddie (01:32):
Yeah. And so I'll tell everybody right up front, we know quite a bit about Zeolites. They've really been around, you know, sort of human beings, human consumption for, you know, thousand plus years. I mean, frankly, you could probably go back close to 5,000 years and look at Chinese clay eating societies, which really, it's, it's sort of a nice way of saying people that had dysentery and were sort of forced to live by river banks and beds and, you know, really were eating dirt, right. For survival. And there were some interesting outcomes that as they ate that clay or the dirt, which clearly contained zeolites there was some that were getting better, right? It played some role in, in stopping the viral replication that was taking place with, with dysentery. And of course, there's, there's history with the Romans using it as part of their plumbing systems and things, which had some interesting outcomes.

Eddie (02:26):
And so we know a lot about zeolites. I think there's 51 or 52, something like that, very specific types that kind of fall in three categories. There's, which you would not think of for human consumption or globule, and then there's sheetlike. And, and what we work with is a sheetlike zeolite called Clin optilite. And in the US it actually has grass status from the FDA because it's, it's been around so long, used safely by people. I think there's 300 plus some pieces on PubMed and actually doesn't even have really contraindications. And so there's sort of a, a safety for all sort of mentality around it. What's interesting when you study clin optilite, specifically, the way its structure is with its for carbon perimeter bonds. It has a native or, or natural negative charge to the cage zeolites, if you looked at 'em under a microscope, a really good microscope you would see that they have tunnels or channels, maybe think of it like Swiss cheese a little bit.

Eddie (03:31):
And if you look at it in its large form, or say a larger size, you'd sort of see the same thing that if you mill it down to a smaller size, it's gonna have a very similar appearance with those tunnels or channels or cages we call it. And the fact that they have those negative cages becomes interesting in if, when we talk about things like heavy metals and other environmental pollutants that have positive charges because they actually create an attraction to one another, almost like the north end and the south end of a magnet sort of drawn together. Well, when you're talking about detoxing, you know, that's pretty important, right? How something might bind. And, and since zeolites are, are not essential minerals. There's no repository or place that they would stay in the body. So there's, there's a lot of interesting things there to explore.

Eddie (04:18):
But most of the time you see is like zeolite form with ply lakes or salt water colliding with lava Mm-Hmm. . And that, that's when this crystalline structure comes into being. And we would find ze elect deposits, almost like mineral deposits, right? In, in many parts of the world. Some would have sort of a greater amount of purity than others. We, we mine ours in the US in a, at a, in a site that would, would be considered very pure actually out of the ground, would have compliance with say, prop 65 status. It, it's that clean out of the ground. So it's, it's an interesting mineral with a lot of history that in general, as in human beings in nature, in water and air plays a role sort of infiltration, infiltration and, and, and cleanup, right? So it's it's, it's kind of ubiquitous in that regard. Yeah.

Logan (05:09):
Nice. You mentioned a couple other clays and like the more common ones, bentonite K clay, then there's also activated charcoal. Both of these have absorptive properties, right? The same as zeolite, but what, what sets zeolites apart from these other substances that are gonna have some somewhat similar effects?

Eddie (05:30):
Yeah, so when you think of the clays, just in, in general, or even charcoal charcoal's almost like a filtration unit, right? So if something passes by, you would want it to have a catching effect to just things in general that you don't want your water or whatever happens to be. Where zeolite is distinctive is that it has a real drawn property or specific property where it's looking for positively charged particulates. In this case, that category fits heavy metals like cadnium, lead, mercury, aluminum, others, clearly things we do not want in our body. And so it becomes really interesting when you start to think of it that way. And it isn't just that it can trap in its cage because of that negative charge. You also get what's referred to in math as a zeta effect, where it can have that same attractive quality at the top of the cage.

Eddie (06:25):
And so think of it this way if, if I had a magnet, a piece of paper here, and I put it over the top of the magnet, if it's a fairly thin piece of paper, the magnetic qualities will extend, you know, through the paper to whatever's on the top of the surface. So while the Zeoli os can attract things and track them in its cage through ion exchange as it would be moving through the body, 'cause it works on proximity, you also have a snowball effect where it's going to gather things on its surface, right? And so now that's two sort of qualities. And then as you have zeolites and what I refer to as bunches, right? When you take it in a drop, even though you can't see it, because it's a nano size, right? It's, it's really small. There's thousands of particles in there.

Eddie (07:07):
And so as they would travel, there's almost like a sweeping effect, or think of a, a set of, say, snowballs coming down the hill, right? And, and the external things that are gonna get, gather with 'em. And so in that regard, it's specific. And in this case, it also is not really going to have an impact on positive minerals in the body because they would not have a charge that has the most attracted to. So the zeolite cage actually based on size and charge, creates this strong attraction. We actually, in our process flood the cages with calcium and magnesium, not enough to have a nutritional impact on the body. But so then that, there's something in there that doesn't have, but a modest definitive force. So when it seeds a heavy metal, the on exchange is, is aided or helped, right? That's part of making it more bioavailable. You, you can't do those things with the clays or really even the, the charcoals, right? There's simply just filtration products with a, a, a passive impact on, on cleanup.

Logan (08:08):
Okay. And I've heard that like charcoals, those may be pulling out some of the, the minerals that are useful, like zinc that in, in those cases that that may happen, whereas that's not gonna be happening with the zeolites.

Eddie (08:19):
Yeah, that's exactly right. So that's why, I mean, frankly, you know, you hear a, a, a lot of different protocols, right, about detox, right? You're in this business, so you get a lot of, of, of ideas. I'm concerned when I hear people so broadly using day in and doubt clay or charcoal, just for that factor, very difficult for them to take measure of how many good minerals are are being eliminated as well. And so they might be forced into a very regimented routine of, of mineral supplementation. That's probably not necessary. And so, you know, for me, in my experience, I just believe the zeolite represents a more a a superior, simpler way, right? With less complications, less potential for side effects, including depletion of minerals. There's no research to suggest that the zeolite has any impact on, on the electrolytes you need generally. Mm-Hmm. . And so for, for me, and, and I, I'll, I'll be candid with the, with the crowd, I'm, I'm 60 years old, and so at this point, you know, I, I, I think about those kind of things, right? I don't wanna sort of make those mistakes for my own personal consumption or what I, you know, ask my family or my customers to use. Yeah,

Logan (09:29):
Absolutely. And then one other thing I want compare or get your thoughts about is I've been hearing a lot about fulvic and humic acids. We, we sell, which is a natural source of these, and those have some similar, but maybe different detox properties as well. So how, how is zeolite similar or different to those?

Eddie (09:49):
Well, in the case of fulvic acid, and so we do offer a phobic product ourselves. We don't offer a humic product a little separate issue for us. And so we focus really on, on the phobic, 'cause we can have a little greater control in, in terms of what we're looking for inside of a profile, like of trace minerals. Yep. And so our particular one, it's got phobic and C based trace minerals, and then some zeolite in there as well. It's, it's, it's sort of a, a, a three in one product. When you think of phobic and trace minerals, you think of adding back to the body, supplementing the body with trace minerals or other compounds. Phobic is tremendous amount of compounds, right. That we believe have good qualities for health and the body. And in fact, you found fulvic acid fairly freely even in commercially grown crops 25 or 30 years ago.

Eddie (10:39):
Of course. Now the way crops are not rotated, I should say, or, or how commercial use is in terms of fertilized pesticides things of this kind, you just don't see it. Like we once did some organic fruit and vegetables would still have some FBE in it. And so we think supplementing, well, it can be a, a positive thing for people to do, but one is supplementing in the body, principally some nutrients, amino acids that you would find in the FBE trace metals primarily. And the other is just simply there to aid the body in elimination of toxins. That's, that's really all that zeolite is gonna do. 'cause Like I said, it, it, it, there's no, it's not an essential mineral, so it's not playing a role in that regard in the body.

Logan (11:19):
Okay. Very nice. Correct me if I'm wrong, but some of the early research around zeolites was actually with like cesium and some of the radioactive elements, they were using it in Chernobyl. Is that right?

Eddie (11:32):
Yeah, I mean, I, I, some of that is really fascinating when you sort of do a deep dive on it. Even not just Chernobyl, but Fukushima Mm-hmm, right? Sort of a, a similar type thing. And so what they have found is that it can trap some of these radioactive materials. You know, how much some of those types of details, I don't know that they fully know the scope of that research. So what Zeolites have, what they've done is they've mixed it with concrete. And as they've gone in to try to seal these places where they've just said to themselves, okay, I'm gonna abandon this because we don't believe we could control or mediate or, or, or get rid of this sort of radioactive material water, whatever happens to be, this was particularly true in Chernobyl. I think in Fukushima, they've tried to do more of that type of work.

Eddie (12:19):
So they used Zeolites mix of concrete to seal the areas, and it did have an impact of stopping it sort of in its place. And that's still today, decades later. Of course, that radioactive material is gonna be there a long time, but there's no reason to think of this as, as, as breaking down. So I, there's some research even to look at fighting forces that in the field of battle or the theater where depleted uranium and other materials have been used in heavy shells and, and, and some weapon tree that could have a positive impact. But outside of just some preliminary research on that, I don't really know of final research to draw, you know, significant conclusions. But I, I think what it speaks to is the fact that we, we recognize both historically just studying history, but then just in general with research, that zeolites have a lot that they can do to sort of serve human beings in, in dealing with environmental pollutants of all kinds, right? And if there's a, what is it, a hundred plus thousand different manmade chemicals of properties that, that are out there sort of floating in the system that we live in, it's tough.

Logan (13:25):
Yeah. That, that's exactly what I'm saying. The detox is so important because never in the span of humanity have we had to deal with these things. And it's not like I mean, lead enough of that will definitely kill you right then and there. But the little bits that are found in the food and the air and everything, it's the, the chronic in the buildup of all these different things all at once, which leads to us needing to do like various protocols and take products like these in order to support our health if we wanna be healthy and thrive thriving. That is,

Eddie (13:54):
Yeah. I, I, I don't, I think we underestimate the role that it plays over time in, in diminishing the impact of the immune system, right? How the immune system functions or the repair network in the body, right? How your proper, proper function of enzymes, which are so critical for organ repair or whatever happens to be, and I know at at 60 right? My peer group, right? I look at 'em, some have lived a cleaner life than others, right? We won't give commentary to it. But you can sort of see the impact if your lifestyle is not sort of promoting a healthy access to water, air, some exercise, some of these type things versus those that ignore it, and, and your body, I believe it's just becomes overburdened or overwhelmed and you lose some functionality. It'd be just like an automobile, right? If you never did any tuneup or changing the oil or, you know, whatever happens, you're, you're gonna degrade functionality and that's appears to happen to us.

Eddie (14:47):
And then of course you see acute issues whether that's things that are happening with skin problems or rashes, or I guess there's some belief that people on the spectrum, in some cases it can be because they don't manage heavy metal exposure very well, or there's a buildup. And so their body isn't sort of naturally or natively helping to expel those things that it can impact sort of function, right? I, I refer to as executive function speech, clarity of thinking control of behavior emotions, things like this. And so it's a, it's a deep issue that I don't think everybody faces that, but clearly your, your DNA as it's replicating, it's gotta impact you in some way. And I don't think it's positive, right? The exposure.

Logan (15:30):
Yeah. So Xix is mostly well known. We've kind of already talked about it for helping to remove the heavy metals and also some of the radioactive components we talked about a little bit, those, but when I was doing the research for this kind of diving deeper, I was bit more surprised. I shouldn't say surprised, but I really hadn't heard this much before, that it's good for removing mycotoxins as well. I unfortunately have lived in two mold houses in a row, and my wife had Lyme disease and it got ex extremely bad. So doing a lot of the mitigation and the slow process of pulling the, the mycotoxins out, and that's another thing that's kind of everywhere in the environment. Like lots of houses have this problem, and it seems to be a growing problem as well, more people getting sensitive to it. So can you talk a little bit about mycotoxins and how the lytes can help in that area?

Eddie (16:18):
Yeah. So when we, when we think of it in that way, you know, based upon my exposure to the literature and some of the, you know, I'm not a PhD or, or that I wanna make that clear to people, but I spend a lot of time with these folks. And so here's those interpretations from just sort of the theory of, of why people are getting this relief. And there's sort of two dynamics that appear to be at work. One is that fundamentally when you start to clear out heavy metals and other environmental pollutants that zeolites can directly impact, we, we, we sort of know this, right? Because of positive charge, negative charge, all these dynamics, then you free up your immune system to better manage the load of exposures to other kinds of toxins. And so it's the, the molds and, and, and the mildews and, and other issues like that.

Eddie (17:07):
And so that's sort of one attribute. The other is that particularly if you're talking about pathogens, you, you make the body an inhospitable host. And, and so you're talking about with zeolites the ability to help balance a person's pH we know that it can promote healthy gut flora. And so all of these things can contribute to the body's native ability to manage toxins and exposures. Now, if you're living in a home or a place where you've got this constant exposure, the first thing to do is get the heck outta there. Yeah. Right? And, and, and eliminate the exposure because you've got a body burden that you're probably seeing all kinds of health deteriorations beyond just the obvious, right? 'cause Your entire system is overwhelmed once you help out some part of the body. It's just like when you add good nutrition and you're detoxing, man, now your whole system can better perform to do what it's supposed to do to, 'cause there's a certain amount of mold and mildew that frankly the body can manage, right? It's just when there's this over exposure. And so that's why I believe the greatest contribution is cleaning the body up from doing other tasks and focusing on the main thing, right?

Logan (18:16):
Well, and you're not gonna get a 100% away from mold in mycotoxins in, in in your food and the air, all, all kinds of different things. So yeah, that's that. That's great. Another area that is really important, and something we talk about a lot at Lost Empire herbs is endocrine disrupting chemicals. This is a huge factor. Endocrine, meaning the hormonal system and all these chemicals such as BPA that can have estrogenic effects, anti androgenic effects, obesogens, antithyroid, like a large gamut of negative effects across the body. Yeah. And these chemicals, once again, are just about everywhere. Some big areas are of course, pesticides, skincare, but water and food, different stuff like that. And Zia lights also can play a role in this. Is it because they're just the positively charged chemicals as well in the zeolites? It's gonna help pull 'em out.

Eddie (19:08):
That is part of it. But I don't know, in my description when I was talking earlier, the sweeping effect. So one of the things we know is that it isn't just what can happen in the cage or the surface, it's that them working in a cluster. Maybe, you know, sort of now I'm, I'm gonna simplify a pretty complex process here, but think of a gang of zeolites, kind of like rolling through the system, right? And they're going to be collecting other toxins as well. We could be talking about microplastics P oss. And there's, there's just going to be a positive impact across the board that we refer to as a sweeping effect. And, and frankly, this is, I mean, this is one of the more toxic or areas of toxicity that I have concerns about. We sell in our product line quite a few products made from organic fruits and vegetables.

Eddie (19:58):
And that definition for the most part means, right, the practices of not using petroleum-based fungicides, herbicides, pesticides, things like that. Now we actually have to check our crops or what we receive and what we're buying for microplastic intake through the root system. Mm-Hmm. , just like we've just seen recently fish that literally have begun to adopt microplastics as a part of their organ structures in their bowel. And I'm sure there's some human beings that if, if, if those same types of of of research was done, we, we'd find people sort of got plastics now as functional parts of, of their body. And so I really, I worry heavily about those things be because we just long term, you know, we don't completely know what's gonna happen there,

Logan (20:44):
Right? Yeah. I mean, the decrease in fertility being one of the problems that is coming from all this. Yeah. And that's interesting that the uptake of these pollutants, even if you're doing things right, like with many of our herbs, just because of the really leaded gasoline, the fact that they did that for decades and it a lies and got everywhere. So you can have a forest out there that should be pristine, but there's still some amount of lead in the root system, which is gonna be uptake into the, the trees and herbs. We, we obviously test for that stuff, and we have strict limits, but you can't eliminate it completely. So this is why you need support in the thing. So, you know, you have some amount of it and can it just be pulled out slowly and slowly all the time, especially to get to the lead that's been stored in your bones since you were probably born, because our parents had this problem too, right?

Eddie (21:33):
Yeah. Hey, listen, if, if we checked everybody's blood for DDT, which was banned in the seventies, right? 99% of human beings alive in this earth, they're gonna have it or take C eight, which is a principle component in Teflon, which was sort of introduced in society with non-stick cookware in the late forties and fifties, but then became ubiquitous in fabrics and carpets and things like that. A hundred percent of the people in the earth are gonna find C eight in their tissue to simply because it's a part of the atmospheric rain winds. Yeah. We, we've created our, we're we're a living experiment with these darn things. Yeah. Which is concerning.

Logan (22:13):
Yeah. And not to scare people. 'cause I know like the, the first exposure to this stuff, it can feel quite overwhelming, but the, the good news is there are things like this that you can do protocols to one, just dramatically reduce your exposure. That is like the, the first step, whether that's mycotoxins or the ca eight, the pesticides and different stuff like that. And then two, can you support your body because the body essentially knows what to do with this stuff to get it out when you especially give it the right support to do so.

Eddie (22:42):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I marvel at the genius of the human body and, and hopefully we can catch up to it with our practices. Yeah.

Logan (22:52):
So you mentioned a little bit about zeolites benefiting the microbiome, and I also saw some information on it. It improves the integrity of the intestinal barrier limiting intestinal permeability. And I actually saw there was even one study that was looking at the absorption of gluten, which obviously a lot of people are gluten-free or have problems with gluten today. So I was surprised to see zag maybe having an effect on gluten specifically.

Eddie (23:16):
Yeah. You know, gluten intolerance, there seems to be some relief there. Of course, the biggest thing a person can do is just, yeah, be careful of their exposure and what type of gluten, right? 'cause It's, it's different whether it's coming from a ancient seed or whatever that happens, happens to be. We've also just sort of extending that sort of area. We get a lot of positive comments about people that have, you know, said, Hey, I've got leaky gut, or I was told I have leaky gut and I've got these symptoms and these other things. And so that, that repair improvement on the health of the gut and the bowel really is a common commentary that we get. And in, in, in fact my own, my own belief in sort of study. And so we've probably got 35,000 plus five star reviews, and I think our zeolite products are bumping up on 20,000 on their own.

Eddie (24:06):
And so we look at 'em pretty carefully to read the commentary. And what people are, are saying is kind of strong indications, right? 'cause They're, they're not things we can control. These are all done by third party that we can't have any impact on. And so when I see people refer to having a real increased in energy and sleeping better, my own instinct is that's because the health of their gut's improving. Mm-Hmm. , you know, I just think that's sort of the first thing that starts there when you, when you think about the gut, it's not common for people to sort of recognize that 50 plus percent of the serotonin that most people are producing is coming from their, their gut. You know, some people call it the second brain, however they want to refer to it. Well, of course, if you don't have an adequate amount of serotonin, you're probably not in a good frame of mind.

Eddie (24:52):
You're probably not sleeping well, then you're probably eating worse 'cause you're eating your feelings. I mean, these, these, these whole cycles. And so I think that is a real quick contribution by helping to balance the pH in the gut and, and sort of creating inhospitable environment for unhealthy yeast and things that can take over the flora damage the lining of the intestinal wall, contribute to leaky gut. And so that's one of the first things I really see people talk about is, is are those types of issues that I think are related to their gut.

Logan (25:24):
Yeah, absolutely. And so the immune system and the, the modulation that Zite can have on that, all, all the stuff you're saying, it's effect on the guts, obviously pulling stuff away and out of the body, so the body is freed up to do things. But I, I saw it was specifically referring to it having an action similar to super antigens. Can you go into detail about that?

Eddie (25:46):
Yeah. You, you know, as, as I look at that, I'm, I'm not sure the mechanism of action is, is clear to me. I think there're observing an outcome that's consistent enough that's saying, okay, this is because Right. There's a cause and effect that they're seeing, but I don't know that I understand fully, except that it could, in this case, have an antioxidant type of quality, right? Just in terms of how it's functioning inside the body, remembering that there's an iion exchange taking place that you would think about as an antioxidant type of behavior, right. Where you're giving up a good for a bad. And so beyond that, though, I don't, I don't know that I understand fully, and I'm not sure the literature yet does. Right? I think that is an area where we'll learn more about and be able to speak to specifically in the future. Yeah.

Logan (26:30):
So next step I mentioned to you before, but I, I spent some time on PubMed. I also am not a PhD. I, I did one semester at community colleges. Like, yeah, I can learn better by myself. And now love it. I spent a lot of time going through scientific studies so a little bit familiar with how those work, but went through a click through and run through and looking specifically at the clinical trials and just wish I could get your input on some of these. So several of these were in humans just one kind of what we were just talking about, but improving IBS symptoms. So just that, that gut health that you were talking about, right?

Eddie (27:05):
Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And so if you sort of look at how the human body under normal circumstances reacts over time to zeolite if, and, and if renal functions, normals kind the first place to start processes out of the body in about a four to six hour period of time on normal basis, and know a little bit about that, looking at urine discharge. And so there's enough research out there about urine discharge to sort of understand sort of that biological function. And so, and, and then we see it, this is, it is an interesting place. We have parents with kids that are on the spectrum. And, you know, one thing you see there, I mean, I think generally if, if you don't have a kid on the spectrum and you read about it, then you think about the parents are dealing with just mostly behavioral type of issues, right?

Eddie (27:53):
That's the emotional and behavioral type of issues. But other things a little deeper is a lot of those children have real significant gut problems. Mm-Hmm. constipation can be this real critical battle, you know? And if you've got a really young child that's constipated all the time, you've got a really unhappy child. I mean, you've got all kinds of things there that are difficult to deal with and, and the kid probably can't even probably verbalize it, right? So you've got these things. So when you can create a more consistent pattern with renal function, then bowel function can follow. And so as it is improving, right, the pH and, and finding relief and, and helping to probably drive out some of these bad yeast and other things, normal bowel function should occur. This is clearly something that's on a consistent basis that being seen by people.

Eddie (28:45):
And so it's really you know, I I just think that's great, right? Because along with that, you get relief, right? As you get better transit time, most people dealing with IBS issues would see better outcomes, particularly if that also means the bad flora begins to diminish. So the good flora is in there so that it's not these issues where they've got a constant loose stool that really is almost like water to where they've got something with the proper amount of bulk and, and action. And so, I, I, I, and you know, for if you deal with people, I've got a, a brother and a mom that have had all kinds of bowel IBS type issues their whole lives. And, and managing that is so challenging. So when you see people get that relief, it's really fulfilling.

Logan (29:31):
Nice. next up there was one looking at topical wound healing and comparing it to the, the standard of care that is used for such in hospitals and finding that Zeolites has some positive action there.

Eddie (29:43):
Yeah. So at this point, there's, there's, there's nothing from a regulatory standpoint that allows us to make claims about that. So I just want to kind of make that little caveat there. But anecdotally, and just to say that out loud, you know, anecdotally, but over the years, right? You see a lot of anecdotal commentary, I believe, because it plays a role in helping to clean out wound sites, particularly when you're, you're, you're talking about bacterias and things that if you can disrupt that process of how the bacteria grows or extends itself, or even viral replications, right? So it's gonna play some role. We've had people, and again, this is just anecdotal share with us before and after on spider bites Mm-Hmm. and pretty quick recoveries that they're describing about themselves. And so, you know, you don't know all the dynamics of those situations, right? We don't know all the things. Did they put ice on it? Did they put ine on it? You know, we, you know, you don't, you don't know all those things, but they're saying, at least in some way, they feel like that the use of zeolites played a role in, in the quick the quick way or, or how rapidly wound healing occurred. Right? So you know exactly what the mechanism are, it's probably unique to each individual person.

Logan (31:03):
Well, historically, various clays will be used for tices and plasters for all kinds of injuries. So it certainly makes sense there. Yeah.

Eddie (31:10):
Yeah. Yeah.

Logan (31:11):
The next one, and this one is kind of interesting, was reduced lead uptake from water. They're literally giving people lead , but with zeolites and showing that less of it was being absorbed in the body, which I would not wanna play a role in that study, but I guess it's good for us to know .

Eddie (31:26):
Yeah. I'm not even sure. I think that's ethical. But when, when we have seen those pieces, and there's more than one of those, there's several of those that I just don't quite agree with the ethical standards associated with it, but they've counted on the fact that the zeolite binds in the fluid prior to consumption the lead. And since the zeolite is a non-essential mineral, there's no way for the lead to stay behind their outcomes would suggest that's true. Mm-Hmm. , right. If you look at the positive outcomes that have occurred, it's just yeah. Risky and questionable to do that, but, you know, I, I think they prove their outcome. Yeah.

Logan (32:03):
The next one was increased bone mineral density. Is this because, well, like I was saying, like lead in various other heavy metals may get stored in the bones, and then if the body is detoxing these, then perhaps it can put in the better, more useful minerals, or is there some other action at play that

Eddie (32:19):
You're aware? Nope. I, I, I think it's exactly what you're describing, because whether it's lead or mercury, which we know can also have an impact on brittle, brittle bones and things like that. Mm-Hmm. , you, you get rid of those right? That are blocking a receptor or the natural uptake or use of calcium or magnesium in combinations you're, you're just gonna see an IM improvement. Right? And so I'm, I'm confident that's exactly as you described, where that's coming from.

Logan (32:45):
Yeah. All right. And the last human trail here that I saw was less chemotherapy induced side effects. So everyone knows that chemotherapy is really rough to go through, somewhat even describe it as torture. And the side effects can be quite brutal and really all, all sorts of different things. So being able to lower these, that seems like quite a good benefit to get, right?

Eddie (33:07):
Yeah. That, that's exactly right. I mean, on a personal level, you know, I've had plenty of people share those experiences, and you're, you're right, it is, it is just brutal on the body. Mm-Hmm. , you know, what's happening there, right? They're, they're, they're, they're trying to poison and kill off a disease before they kill off the host, right? That's a heck of a battle to engage in. But I, as I've had it described to me, helping the gut to maintain a certain amount of health Mm-Hmm. during that process just allows people without constantly stool or other types of issues be able to tolerate these treatments that they're going through. Mm-Hmm. . And that happens frequently enough that if I had that unfortunate diagnosis, and that was the, that was the pathway I chose I'd be loading up on zeolite just so I could kind of tolerate whatever I'd signed up for.

Logan (33:57):
Yep. The, a few other trials were in farm animals, and this is still interesting stuff. So the first one was chickens and that the zeolites were protecting them from the aflatoxins, a certain type of mycotoxins that was in the diet. So this is one of the studies that was showing that they had that positive effect or useful effect against mycotoxins.

Eddie (34:17):
Yeah. And, and I think the functionality there, we would, we would probably look to think of it in the same way that it's having that positive impact on humans. Yeah. Right. And how it helps to manage and deal with those microtoxins and, and, and pathogens.

Logan (34:30):
Yeah. Yeah. Not, not enough people realize that, you know, when we're feeding grains to animals that don't normally eat them, in many cases, these are moldy grains. It's not the stuff fit for human consumption, so it goes to animals, and then there's the bioaccumulation. This gets into the tissues of the chickens, the cows, et cetera. And then you're, you're getting mycotoxins through this route, unfortunately. So here using zeolites could help 'em, of course, if we didn't feed 'em greens, greens in the first place, that might be useful too.

Eddie (35:00):
You, you've just touched on a really deep subject there that I, I, I don't know if the public really wants to know Yeah. Because that feed supply, it means it's gone bad. That's why it goes to the animals. And for us not to make a direct connection on that, it's just a, a, a mistake in our thinking. We, we, it expose ourselves in ways that nobody intends, but, you know, garbage in, garbage out like they used to say with computers. Right. And same type of thing.

Logan (35:30):
Yeah. The next one was pigs and decreased e coli, but specifically they're looking at e coli that had antimicrobial resistance. So zeolites pos possibly playing a role in helping, you know, with all the antibi resistance that is going on due to our overuse of them but this being able to lower the e coli that was involved in those pigs.

Eddie (35:54):
Yeah. So sometimes when you, you look at EE coli or other pathogens along those line, they survive in the body and they would survive in, in the pig's body because they create an invisibility to the host immune system. Mm-Hmm. , almost like a cancer does, right. A a cancer sort of hides itself at a certain point. That's why it flourishes, because the immune system doesn't really attack it. You've, you've, you've got NK cells, natural killer cells that are supposed to fight cancer in your body, but they don't marshal up their, their impact or do their work if they don't see the cancer there. And so when you look at immunotherapies for cancer, where they may take a tumor, I live pretty near Duke University Hospital where some of this research has taken place. It's quite fascinating. And they give these immunotherapies to tumors where, for example, one of the common ones is they give the tumor polio.

Eddie (36:49):
It won't create polio in the human, but the immune system sees it as polio, and all of a sudden it didn't see the tumor before. Now it sees the tumor and it attacks and shrinks and, and tumors have even been eliminated. I mean, there's, there's really promise there. When you have these things in the bowel system and a person begins to use zeolites the theory is that you, you basically break down some of the membranes or other things that they e coli or these other pathogens are hiding behind, and they become exposed to the natural immune system to go in there and attack it. Mm-Hmm. . And so it's, it's playing this cyst in, in the body's native function. And I, another area where I'm excited about where that research can take us and what else we can learn.

Logan (37:37):
Yeah. Yeah. That I have not heard about the giving polio to cancer. Very interesting stuff.

Eddie (37:42):
Yeah.

Logan (37:43):
But the last trial here, this was the one that had a null result. So it was in steers and it did not reduce any negative effects that came from a high sulfur water. Apparently too much sulfur can cause some issues here. And the zeolites we're not mitigating that one. Can you speak to why that might be?

Eddie (38:01):
I think because it's just not a good fit for it. Yeah. , right. A ZA zite does not have a ubiquitous impact on environmental pollutants. Yep. And so, and, and I'm, I'm happy they do some of those trials just so we can learn more, but there are some out there that I've read, not unlike that where you go, that's just not what it's gonna do. Right. That's not that, it's not gonna support that. I

Logan (38:23):
Mean, sulfur is generally like, we need sulfur and everything, so it's, it's not gonna bind, doesn't have an affinity for this compared to many of the other things that we're looking at. Right. And basically it comes down to that.

Eddie (38:33):
Yeah. And I actually think that may be an advantage overall because you're talking about an inner mineral. Right. And, and so this is another reason why it's not having a negative impact on positive electrolyte levels or other things like that. Right. It's, it's not gonna try to distinguish that. That's not a part of its functionality. Mm-Hmm. . And so while it'd be great to see ev it impact everything you can kinda logically see why it wouldn't. Yeah.

Logan (39:00):
Alright. So that's enough of the trials. Now I want to go into some of the details specifically more about your products and how they're set apart from some of the other zeolites out there. First of all respect to you for posting your lab results online. Okay. I wish more supplement companies did that. Sure. The, you know, not, so if a zeolite already was bound to something and you consumed it, it technically shouldn't be getting into your body. Right? So let's say that zeolite was already bound up with lead as we were seeing in that lead in water study that shouldn't be getting into your body, but still your zeolites are tested to be very free of heavy metals involved in them, right?

Eddie (39:41):
Yeah, that's right. So your your, your identification there, the logic there is, is correct. Right. The zeolite, since it's not essential, and if it's a naturally mined zeolite, the challenge would be that when you look across the landscape of sales of supplements in this zeolite category, you've got a fair amount of our competitors that are selling synthetics. Hmm. And the synthetics can, can kind of look the same from a, a chemical standpoint, but they've been shown to have a vulnerability to weak acids, which would what you'd be describing in the gut. And so what would happen there is that the bond, the four carbon bonds break down, and so now the zeolite breaks apart and whatever it was bound to breaks apart now becomes available in the body. So we're pretty critical that whatever you're doing use clin optill light naturally mind, and then test the source.

Eddie (40:36):
Make sure you understand the amount of clin optill light that's in your sample, and then test it for purity. Now, we, we partly do that because putting it through a proprietary process of, of sort of cleaning and prepping the cage, right? It's just going to be more effective if it doesn't have lead or something already in it. Right. If it's got a soft calcium, a soft magnesium in it, then it's gonna easily give that up in an ion exchange in the device. So there's a, there's just, there's a strategy to that, but I think it's important. So I, I tell folks there's sort of three things to consider. Principally, I think you should also think about who you're doing business with, and do they put lab results online? Do they have naked reviews? We call it, I mean, things so that you can know as a consumer guarantees all this kind of stuff. And we, we really, we started touchstone 12 years ago to address those questions. I, there's, there's some good supplements out there, but there's probably 99% of the, the supplement marketplace. I wouldn't use what they have. Right. I just know enough to know better. But in our ,

Logan (41:38):
It's funny, we do all the same things you do. So lab tests online, third party independent reviews, like yeah, that's, I agreed. I wish more companies did these things.

Eddie (41:46):
And it's a big category, right? So, and people are spending real, do I never take for granted the money that they're spending? Mm-Hmm. , you're spending this money, spend it wisely. You know, it's your body, it's your health. It's probably arguably as important a place for you to invest, you know, is, is is your health and what you do. But in our case, we think the sourcing's pretty critical, which I, I talked about. That's online. The prep of the cage is critical. We just don't see that very often. Mm-Hmm. that people are doing that. Right. And then the third thing is to consider size, because size in this case matters. We have two versions. We have pure body regular, which has a mean average size of 0.5 microns. Yep. The green drops. And it's denser, right? You, you notice it, it's cloudy taste it, you can see.

Eddie (42:34):
Yeah. Yeah. You can taste it. You can see what's there at that size. The bulk of those drops are gonna main or remain in the gut. And, and in the bowel system is in almost a concentration, which is exactly what we're looking for. If you go much smaller, it migrates out of the gut soft tissue into the bloodstream. Now there's some benefits there, but we are first really trying to address the health of the gut, which is your first line of defense when we come to toxicity, right? Your, your, your gut's the critical player here for the human body. We have the nano size product, which is the spray, the blue erwin, the blue label that you showed. And at a nano size, it's gonna go anywhere, water goes. And so it's going to enter the cell structure. And with a lot of heavy metals, you're talking about angstrom size particles that are literally hanging out in the tissue in the cell structure.

Eddie (43:28):
And so the zeolite with a nano cage, which is, let's just say generally speaking, a thousand times larger than say the angstrom size becomes a great conduit for these very small fine particles, but disrupted to your DNA disrupted to how your telomere process works, telomeres production, all these dynamics. And so both are necessary. If, if I thought I could sell just one answer for everything, that'd be terrific. That's just not the case. And so you've really got to adopt two strategies. And people said, I'm gonna tell I can only afford one go nano. You got a hundred trillion cells in your body. Let's start there. Mm-Hmm. and deal with your gut. Unless your gut's just this really major issue, and you've got to heal your gut to get there. But we think the, we think the combination is important. Just as important to us as getting the bad stuff out of the body, putting the good stuff in. These two things for, for us are, are sort of married together and people say, well, how long before I'm clean? Well, unless you live in a bubble, this is a daily routine just like getting good nutrition. It's just, you, you just need to think about this on a constant basis 'cause of the world we live in.

Logan (44:38):
And could you talk to the difference between like powdered zeolites I heard people talk years ago, but like it was a more cost effective solution to get that. But based on what I've heard you say it, it sounds like the liquids are actually gonna be more beneficial in different ways. Could you go into more detail on the differences between that and why you, you go with liquid in the two different ways? Yeah.

Eddie (44:59):
Yeah. And I'll just, just in full transparency, we're if, if we're not the largest deal like company, we're, we're one of mm-Hmm. . And so if we thought we should be selling a powdered product, it'd be easy to do, right? We, we would just simply do that. But the powdered product is gonna be a large particle. And so you, you know, you're talking about a spoonful of something. I literally see people use spoonfuls of of the powder that are gonna be so large in their size that the amount of surface area created right in, in the zeolite case, the smaller the zeolite particle, the more surface area that's created per drop, kind of counterintuitive, but it's exponential. The larger, the smaller the surface area, therefore the, the, the least effective in, in terms of impacting proximity, zeta effect, trapping in its cage, all these sort of dynamics.

Eddie (45:52):
And so, and I don't believe it's reasonable to think people will day in and day out, take a teaspoon to a tablespoon of a powder of zeolite and choke that down. And I've been, I'm, as I said, I'm 60. I've been involved in supplements since my mid twenties. If people won't use something day in and day out, then there's really not the long-term benefit that you're looking for. And so, from practical standpoint, that's just a tough exercise. I think people are gonna, this granular thing, they swallow every day. The other one is in a powdered form. It cannot have been prepped. You've gotta take it to a liquid environment in order to prep the cage. So that it's more bioavailable. And the reverse of that, taking it from taking the powder to liquid and then from liquid back to powder, again, it would be so time consuming and expensive.

Eddie (46:48):
That's just not what's taking place. If you are buying a, a powdered product in that regard, that product has not gone through a preparation to enhance. Its, its bioavailability. So you, you might get more volume for your money, but you're not going to get more effectiveness for your money. That's just, that's just not the case. And so we're, we're proponents where you see powders, I believe, in their best applications is mixed with concrete for industrial applications that we've talked about. It can be even in the feed of animals. If you're talking about a 1600 pound steer, I know that there are vets with large animals, you know, 1800, 1200 or 2,400 pound large horses, right? Where tiny drops may not be the solution. 'cause They've got a mix with feed very large volumes of powder. So you, you can have, you could probably have places where you'd say, okay, this is a better solution, but for human consumption, we just, we just don't think so. We don't think you're getting what you think you're paying for. Mm-Hmm.

Logan (47:51):
. And regarding the synthetic zeolites, are many of those powders gonna be that, or some, some synthetics, some not.

Eddie (48:00):
Most of the powders will be naturally mined. Yeah. They, they could be synthetics. We are, the biggest use is, it's, it's, it's interesting. The biggest use of synthetic zeolite is an automobile tire rubber because it, it's mixed in there to diffuse heat, it acts as a reflective quality mixed with rubber automobile tires. The friction right. Can create heat. And the more friction, the quicker those tires degradate. And so they manufacture in high volume synthetic zeolites mixing with tire rubber to dissipate heat in your automobile tire. It's a cheaper solution than some of the other chemicals that can do that. To my knowledge, all the people selling synthetic zeolite as supplements are just simply re repurposing what was manufactured for automobile tires. And so to me, the whole idea is just plagued with problems. Right. don't, don't know. Sometimes you just don't mess with mother nature. Yeah,

Logan (48:58):
Yeah. In general, it's a good rule of thumb. Mother nature is a, a good guide as far as what where to start.

Eddie (49:04):
Yeah. Yeah. That's what we believe.

Logan (49:06):
Yeah. what would you recommend, I know we're wrapping up here, but what are some of your other besides zeolites, like detox things, like what do you do in your life in order to be healthy beyond just taking Zeolites? I know it's a broad question, but Yeah. Some of your top

Eddie (49:22):
It, it is, you know, I tell people, number one, there's, there's a lot you can do that doesn't cost anything. I mean, one, even a modest amount of mindfulness, right? Just trying to have some management of stress movement, big proponent of movement breathing exercises, things that are free. And you may not live in an environment where you can avoid exposure to toxins, but if you do, you should. Right? Things that you can do if you're in a modern home and you can introduce fresh air on occasion and not be trapped by the chemicals associated with drywall, carpet, varnish, cleaners, you know, so I tell people to one, know that there are things you can do and you should do grounding. Get yourself out into the woods on occasion and walk right. Breathe in those oils coming off trees and fla plants and flowers, right?

Eddie (50:16):
So those are things I think that are important from a dietary standpoint. I think most people get it. I think they, they, they don't need a box of chicken wings thinking they just did the most, the most healthy thing possible, or a meal comes to a drive through window. So if you can limit that stuff, so it's not daily, it's more of treats, right? I'm a big advocate of trying to have some moderation. I'm not, I'm not trying to ask people to just give it all up, but maybe a little bit, right? That's the first thing I tell 'em. I do use the zeolite. I use our phobic product. 'cause I, I know the trace minerals can be critical to how the body functions. We have a greens powder. As much as I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables, I just don't get the concentration of deep leaf green vegetables that I think I need.

Eddie (51:00):
And there's probably few things that the body more effectively works with than deep green leafy vegetables. And so I, I'm a big proponent of using that on a daily basis. We have a fiber supplement, it's a great mix of fibers. This is not Metamucil. And, and so I, I, I just believe managing bowel health, gut health with fiber, greens, zeolites, you know, trace minerals, phobic, those are just, to me, just really common sense, great ideas. And then we have a, a glucose control product we call it, which helps to manage blood sugars and blood sugar spikes specifically. And I don't think people realize how they wear their body down with this. Well, manmade diet, I think 95% of the foods we're eating in this country on average, are coming from ultra processed foods, which don't have a lot of fiber. They're generally high in fat salt, or really a lot of sugar and carbohydrates, right? And so blood sugar spikes and the epidemic of type two diabetes, and I could get on a whole soap box that I want, but I'm a big believer most people would benefit trying to manage their blood sugars. And so we've got a supplement for there, there are others out there. I, I think we've got a good one, but I I think those are areas to think about. Greens, fiber manage your blood sugar detox. Those are, those are as good advice as I can give somebody.

Logan (52:18):
Right? Yeah. I mean, the basics are the basics for a reason, right?

Eddie (52:22):
Yeah. Yeah. It's not as complicated right. As I think people think.

Logan (52:25):
Yeah. It, it, it's easy to get lost in the weeds, but coming back to, you know, don't lose the forest for the trees, right? Yeah,

Eddie (52:32):
Yeah,

Logan (52:33):
Yeah. So we have a special offer on Zeolites along with this episode. You'll find the details for that at health sovereign.com/zeolites or health sovereign.com/seven three since this is episode 73. So thank you very much, Eddie. This was a illuminating interview. I'm excited to continue to take Zeolites. Yeah, great stuff.

Eddie (52:54):
Yeah, Logan, thank you. And, and the privilege to speak to your audience. And hey, listen, everything you buy, even on special comes with these unconditional money backed guarantees, and so take a chance on yourself, folks.

Logan (53:06):
Absolutely. All right. Thank you, Eddie.

Eddie (53:08):
Thank you.